To think academic success is 90% of the time down to the parents

[TameSacha]

Sparked by a conversation I had at the school gates last week about how another parent wouldn’t be bothering with half term homework (which was making a collage).

I have DS8 and DD6. I read with each of them daily (they read to me and vice versa, takes about ten minutes per child), we do five minutes on their maths apps each day, and things like times tables songs in the car. We try to do at least one educational trip a term that matches with what one of them is learning about (think looking at and drawing a bridge or going to the local museum for Victorians, not going to Egypt for Egyptians). I read their syllabus each term so we can talk about the topics at home.

To me this is a perfectly normal part of child-rearing and supports the education they get at school, where underpaid teachers are on crowd control with thirty kids, some of whom don’t want to or aren’t able to learn.

AIBU to think it’s a parent’s responsibility to support their child’s learning outside of school?

Parental support is definitely a factor, although I think you do more than most people. Supportive parents are important.

Yes to a certain point you are correct, that things like daily reading with children from a young age has been shown to affect outcomes later on.

Of course there are those children who will do well regardless of home environment - likewise there are those that won't do so well despite an expensive education.

I also agree with another poster that it's one thing getting an 8 year old to a museum, sometimes more difficult with a teen!

It’d be great if all structured learning could be delivered in school hours and all children could be supported to understand everything and fulfil their potential there, but anyone with a kid in state primary school right now must realise the challenges.

No disrespect to the teachers who I think do an incredible job in very challenging circumstances.

If any parent isn’t, at least, doing regular reading and maths practice outside of school, that’s just lazy and bad parenting.

It's azing how on MN anything more than the bare minimum is criticised and parents who actually put effort in are seen as smug.

Feeding your child and keeping them alive is the bare minimum. It's not remotely unreasonable to expect parents to put a bit more effort in than that.

Nope. I was a neglected child and am very much an academic success, massive bursary for private school for A levels, degrees, head hunted etc.

I can count on one hand the times my Mum knew I had homework or read to me.

Too many variables/ this post is too simplistic.

Yes, parent involvement helps a lot - it can bring a really struggling child up towards towards the middle, it can make a child who would otherwise be in the middle shine that bit more, it will help a really academic child realise their full potential. Undoubtedly.

However, a really bright child will do well whatever. A child with a lot of SEN will never be hugely academically successful, although they might have other fantastic skills.

Hard work on the child’s part is probably more of a factor than parental success too - it’s all very well to say “oh we do xyz” when they’re 6 and 8 (so comparatively very young) but you’re not going to be able to force a teenager to work hard if they’re really resistant.

My 16 yo is very academic and also predisposed to work hard. She does amazingly despite not really being pushed by me at all. We obviously did all those basics you describe when she was little but that’s long gone by. My 11 yo has SEN. He’s not going to be top of the class - although of course he can achieve more with certain support and with hard work than if there was no support.

So saying “it’s 90% down to the parents” is wrong, over simplistic, and most of all, I think, demonstrates that with children as young as 6 and 8 yourself (and presumably no wider teaching experience) you’re talking from a very narrow view point. Come back in 10 years and let us know what you think then!

It is 100% a parents responsibility to support their child’s education, but I disagree completely that academic success is down to parents.

Some of it will be up to the opportunities provided by parents like a stable home that doesn’t create barriers to learning, but as long as parents aren’t actively having a negative effect on a child’s education, then the success is down to the child.

Ive known parents that spend an admiral amount of time helping their struggling children but those children will still never be academic. Then there are other children whose parents do next to nothing but the children are bright so they absorb what they are being taught at school without the need for support at home.

I think that at 6 and 8 it is a bit early for you to be lauding yourself on your children's academic success.

By the time they get to exam age there are lots of factors at play. Just looking at my own children and their peers mental health is a big one. Some children in their class barely attend, even the child of one of their teachers due to mental health issues. There is the influence of their friends. There is just their inate personality, one of mine has no problem hitting the books the other one would rather do anything else. You cannot force a teenager to study.

Absolutely reading with them and supporting them will be a positive but it is far more complicated by the time you have an 18yo doing their exams.

I don't necessarily agree with you on that. It depends on the level of engagement. Over engagement can result in kids that are not self-motivated and require loads of guidance to achieve. We should be helping them to learn how to learn, not helping them to learn.

I read to mine when they were young and listened to reading and spellings for a few years but once they got to about 8 or 9 I was hands off wrt homework other than to ask was it done or if they asked for help with something. In secondary my only involvement was to pay for tutoring/revision courses/HPAT (that's the medicine entry exam) coaching. When they were in uni I did some proof reading of major assignments and provided one of them with guidance on statistics as his project supervisor wasn't great with stats. All 3 achieved highly by themselves, although I will claim they are a credit to me 😁

You've been blessed with compliant children who clearly don't have any additional needs OP.

You can be as supportive as you like to children but some can't tolerate homework and some children who have been widely read to don't go on to be voracious readers.

I had children who, due to SEN, didn't engage in primary school to the point of being school refusers. Nothing I could do as a parent could make them go to school. The eldest is now in his first year of UCL, he is extremely bright and managed to self learn GCSEs and went to college for A Levels. He didn't even sit SATS because he refused and did no work for around 3 years due to his 'refusal'.

My second child tries harder but has severe dyslexia so cannot achieve the outcomes that her brother has.

You would, no doubt, have been one of the many who called me a lazy parent!!!

You can personally believe homework is pointless, but actively rejecting the work your child's school sets is only going to incalculate them with the belief that bothering to do schoolwork or not is a matter of personal preference. Which, unless your child happens to be an absolute genius, is unlikely to serve them well in the long term.

Teachers are required to set homework according to the school's policy. Individual teachers might think that formalised homework for KS1 is utterly pointless. (reading, spelling and timetables aside) They will most likely not look at or mark the work, beyond a quick "good work" ink stamp.

If they notice that little Tommy, who struggles at school, has surprisingly completed the collage, they might take the opportunity to praise him for his efforts in a more robust and public way, build up his self esteem and hope to motivate him going forwards. But I'm afraid that your high flying child's work will barely get a glance. There isn't time and the work was not necessary (especially if it was your work and not the child's).

We always tried to support learning with reading, homework, trips etc and continue learning at home to some degree.

We have one very academic DC and another more average achiever. I can’t take any more credit for academic success - they were born that way and easily get full marks in tests with no revision. I very much avoid judging or being smug about this though with other parents.

I'd be very interested to hear your evidence that homework in primary school "hugely helps the children" because I've never heard of any.

We rarely bother with homework tbh. My kids are fairly bright and I'm not worried about their academic performance. They love to read for fun so I just let them get on with that, although reading is one thing I'd insist on if they didn't naturally do it. Other than reading, I'm far more interested in shaping them into well rounded people with good social skills and varied interests, giving them a wide range of experiences and prioritising home and family life. So our evenings are generally spent either at sports/drama/music clubs and lessons, visiting friends and family or doing things together like cooking, gardening or watching a movie. Or quite often, they're just being young kids and playing freely.

I don't think offering kids "extra school" at home is particularly worthwhile. I think home life can be distinctly valuable and equally as important as school. Just giving them more of the same things they do all day doesn't strike me as very useful or enjoyable.

To answer your question yes I do think parents have a huge impact on educational success
However, your thinking is quite rigid in deciding that the support you are giving is the correct and normal support, and anything else is poor parenting.
Do you know they aren’t doing anything educational? Do you know she won’t otherwise be engaging with her child? Do you know her child as well as she does and therefore know what’s best for them? Perhaps her child needs a break from school work and homework doesn’t serve them, but they play educational games at home instead? You have literally no idea because you’re too busy clapping yourself on the back.

If any parent isn’t, at least, doing regular reading and maths practice outside of school, that’s just lazy and bad parenting.

Did you not read axalotilittle's post? @Axalotllittle

I think it is true to say that it is primarily down to the parents but I don't think it's a matter of academic support, I think it's having access to a stable family, a calm and secure home environment, a busy and productive family and high standards for behaviour.

After than you barely need a nudge towards books and homework to have a high performing child.

Completely agree.

Sorry that first paragraph is quoting OP.

Parental engagement and "nudging" the child to do homework, keep up, etc is vital in my opinion, not necessarily "hot housing" with extra work etc.

Our philosophy with our DS was to keep him just ahead of the curve so to speak. So he could read and write, and knew his numbers, before starting school, but no more than the basics, i.e. reading a Thomas the Tank engine book rather than Shakespeare. Counting cars on the road side rather than equations, etc.

If he came home with homework, i.e. a page of sums or some spellings to learn, we sat with him to ensure he did it. If he said he was struggling with something new, we'd sit with him and go through it again, until he understood it more.

All so that when he was in the classroom, he could benefit from what was being taught, rather than sat their twiddling his thumbs waiting for help to come, or getting demoralised that he didn't understand something.

Not doing a homework, whether primary or secondary, whether academic or arty, was simply not an option. We stayed on top of his homework obligations, by checking his book bag, then homework diary and then show my homework app. It was just his normal routine that he knew he had to do his homework before evening "fun time". That early years good habit stayed with him right up to his A levels!

When you start getting behind is when problems arise. You lose the impetus, get demoralised and disenfranchised, etc. Little and often really is the answer to keep slightly ahead of the curve and be ready and in a position to learn in the classroom.

I'm a qualified teacher. My kids did no homework in primary school for all the reasons listed above: time better spent elsewhere, high levels of stress around doing schoolwork at home, utter pointlessness of most of it.

We did all the visits, reading at home, maths through cookery or analysing sports results. All the parenting.

They all managed secondary school homework demands OK.

One of my kids has a double first from Cambridge. He has a solid career which he worked hard for and loves.
One has been expelled from school and college, sacked from several jobs and been on the fringes of criminality (at least). Now working but it's been a long road.

I don't think half term collages or testing them on their spellings has been the defining cause of their pathways through life.

I have always done the homework required with my boys but I don't judge those who haven't. I also don't brag about my kids or what I do to help them. You are the pure definition of a PITA mum and I can see you at the school gate bitching about less fortunate parents/kids. "Can you believe Susan is not helping Jade with her collage??!! Omg, she will never succeed in life." Jesus wept.

Same here. My 2 are like chalk and cheese. One is very academic, prides himself on it. The other isn't. She is fabulous with people though, she has an innate understanding of how people work and gets along with everybody, very well liked and could talk to anyone no matter their age or stage.

Both have been raised the same way they are just very different people and that's OK.

Supporting your child’s education doesn’t equate to doing every bit of pointless homework set. My kids don’t do homework - they both have complex needs and the separation of school and home is important for their well being.

We do read a lot, do activities that combine different skills, eg following a recipe, or building instruction for a craft project - things that use maths and literacy in real life situations. Much more important than whatever worksheet the school sent home. I remember the Minister for Education setting a maths challenge over Easter one year - it went straight in the bin and interestingly enough it wasn’t repeated as far as I’m aware. No one I knew was going to have their kids work through a maths book on holiday.

Completely agree. You’ll note I didn’t say we’re doing hours of extra work every night, just doing the basics the teacher suggests so they can focus on - and hopefully enjoy - learning what’s being taught.