To think academic success is 90% of the time down to the parents

[TameSacha]

Sparked by a conversation I had at the school gates last week about how another parent wouldn’t be bothering with half term homework (which was making a collage).

I have DS8 and DD6. I read with each of them daily (they read to me and vice versa, takes about ten minutes per child), we do five minutes on their maths apps each day, and things like times tables songs in the car. We try to do at least one educational trip a term that matches with what one of them is learning about (think looking at and drawing a bridge or going to the local museum for Victorians, not going to Egypt for Egyptians). I read their syllabus each term so we can talk about the topics at home.

To me this is a perfectly normal part of child-rearing and supports the education they get at school, where underpaid teachers are on crowd control with thirty kids, some of whom don’t want to or aren’t able to learn.

AIBU to think it’s a parent’s responsibility to support their child’s learning outside of school?

It is impossible to generalise. My eldest DD read all the Biff type books before she started school (her brother is 18 months older and brought them home when he started, she read along with him). She read immensely and widely. In fact at primary they would let her read rather than join in with lessons and she taught herself most subjects from the books. She was rated Gifted, exceeded all expectations and left primary with everyone watching her. At secondary her ADHD became very apparent, she struggled and hated school utterly. She still went to Oxford and now has a wonderful job which uses her degree.

NONE of her exceptional success at primary was down to me working with her. I didn't have time. As well as her and her brother I had three little ones and couldn't have told you the day of the week it was, let alone the square root of anything. She loved reading (still does), and basically taught herself. If they want to, they will. If they don't, well, you can help and guide them, but by secondary school it's down to them.

I agree about reading-my kids read for pleasure and we’d chat about the book-but I never policed what books they read or insisted on ‘age appropriate’ or uncontroversial books. They chose the books they wanted. I read to them when they were young every night-but once they could read, they got more pleasure out of reading in their heads rather than out loud. Agree with volunteering at school- I helped with the remedial readers and what was sad was how desperate they were to please and how a bit of encouragement could help them. I’m not talking about SEN kids-just kids who weren’t given attention or interest at home apart from being yelled at.

Maybe read some of the research on this topic.

Point 1. You’re wrong. The majority of parents who don’t read are not lazy. Disgusting judgment. Also there’s a difference between not reading and not doing prescribed reading. If you want to actually be educated do some research into reading age at secondary and correlation between reading age learning disabilities. They’re intrinsically linked.

Point 2. The evidence shows supporting your children with their education matters, it shows little to no benefit of homework. Engaging in education is not the same as completing homework. In fact arguably if all you’re doing is homework you’re taking the lazy approach to supporting education.

Point 3. See above. We aren’t bothering with school half term project. Instead we’ve come to Tenerife where my children have read, swum endlessly, made friends, played football and learnt to play pool. All brilliant ways to develop holistically and far better than a collage.

Point 4. Showing respect for peers and parents is as important. Trust me, as someone who works in a school, the parent we want to smack in the face is the smug one who looks down at others.

Point 5. Why are you now randomly bringing up parental income?

I think we are in agreement so I’m not sure why you’re arguing at me 😆

My kids have learnt to read using their school books, but their homework is “read every day” and they do, using school books but also library books and books they’ve been given or bought. All of that is recorded in their reading diaries and they’ve never had a complaint from a teacher about it. DD reads her phonics type books probably three times a week; other days are other books.

Great for you if you’ve taught your kids to read fluently entirely without their school’s structure or help but I expect that’s pretty unusual.

Oh Ms Smuggy McSmugpants OP.

Come back when your kids have done their A levels and tell us how well they’re doing. Academic success with teens isn’t about collages and half term museum visits.

Enjoy these times with your kids but don’t judge others, because you don’t know what challenges life has in store for you.

@TameSacha - interesting that you say 'particularly at primary' about homework. I think most people would say the opposite (except about reading, which imo should happen regardless if it being set as homework by school). I don't think primary school children should be doing any homework at all except reading. The school day is enough for them. Arguably homework doesn't really become important until KS4.

We are definitely not in agreement.

We read because we do. Not because it’s homework. And I definitely do not think the parents who don’t read are lazy.

I didn’t teach my kids to read. I never claimed I did. What I said was we didn’t do the homework. We just read for fun which has more advantages than doing the reading homework.

Fortunately for us we are at a school where the only homework set is reading and even they admit that the set reading homework is to support parents who are busy / have needs and cannot manage homework / to support kids where there is limited engagement (NOT due to laziness) but when it comes to it reading is actually all that matters in any format. What we’ve done is actually better. Which I know because work in SEND in secondary.

It’s mad that she thinks primary is more important!

The thread was never going to end well because of how smug it came across. It sounded like you wanted a massive pat on the back for doing such an amazing job,

I have two primary school kids. They get set homework every half term and I give them the choice- the teachers freely admit that the evidence suggests homework in primary is pointless. They read daily (even if just a page). My children are the lucky ones who are middle class, get taken out to do stuff and do regular sport and music if they wish. Of course that will have a positive impact.

Parents make a huge difference to academic success, though mainly via genes.

www.bbc.com/future/article/20180905-how-genes-influence-achievement-and-success-in-school

I’m sure that doing extracurriculars adds value, but probably less than it appears.

Smart/driven parents pass on helpful traits to their kids, and take them to museums. Their kids’ academic success is then more down to the traits than the museums. Strong correlation, but only moderate causation.

Your only set homework is reading… And you do a lot of reading, yet you don’t do homework. Okayyyy. Have a great day!

@Ritzybitzy why can’t you have the holiday and do the collage?
I hope you are resisting the urge to ‘smack parents in the face’ for supporting the school. 🙂

Time tables in the car sounds absolutely dire

what are you trying to get from this thread?

You are convinced you are a superior parent, well done you.
As above, no-one will disagree that parents support is critical, but there are ways to do that.

Kids who struggle at school benefit from homework because a parent can take time to explain and reinforce the basis. Kids who are flying are fine without doing any homework in Primary but doing other things. I am not sure you are giving the picture you think you are 😂

Engaging with homework, particularly in primary, is important for pushy parents, so many schools set up homework only to shut up the parents, not because they particularly see the point...

If you are lucky to have put your kids in a school with a small classroom, good. In most state (and some private) primary, there are too many kids, and even with volunteers kids don't get to do much reading and their level assessed in depth, the teacher physically cannot be in several places at once.

I get my kids to read but i don't do any of that other stuff. My kids are both super academic and brilliant at maths, it just comes easily to them. DH and i were both the same as kids.

I think the absolute biggest input parents have is the DNA they give their kids.

I'm not trying to be super smug here, but I'm very clever, and my kids have turned out very clever with minimal input on my behalf. The first two I never did any phonics/reading/tables at home with them - whatever they were doing in school was always enough (they're both now at a super selective grammar).

However, my one dyslexic kid has needed daily input in these areas because group teaching in school hasn't been enough. So in his case, parental input has made a difference (I hope!). I don't think any amount of collages would have helped him, though.

Fair enough, I don’t think I do an amazing job, I think I do the basics that all parents should do unless there’s something major preventing it.

The most important homework is reading from a young age. I think that has an absolutely huge impact on outcomes. Clearly some posters don’t consider that as homework even though the school does.

Really! We had a tape ( was a while ago) and the DTs sang along on the way to school. Painless!

I’ve learned over the years that primary schools set homework because parents see it as a sign that the school is good, not because it actually makes a difference.
Something like a collage has been set so that the school looks like it cares and it’s something to do over half term. Let’s face it, Feb half term was always going to have some grey rainy days and a collage is good busy work.

Yeah my kids its definitely mainly genes. They find school work easy. I can't take any credit at all for parental input other than passing on the genes for academic aptitude.

What is not hard or time-consuming for you is not necessarily the same for others. You don’t know what else they have on their plate.

We play songs too. They use apps (set by school) and get certificates and badges when they complete levels and enjoy the competition and gamification.

I’m sure it’d be dire for a teenager but as young kids they enjoy it.

It’s not ‘only 5 minutes of maths homework on an app’. Sometimes it can take 2 hours of nagging over 5 days to get the child to open the app before that 5 minutes starts. Sometimes it’s just not worth it.

My DC all went into school loving stories and books - they really strugged with decoding - dsylexia and other problems - and it became a struggle to get them to read.

Took years of helping with decoding at home till they got it and using every trick we could to get them back to reading for pleasure- with eldest a decade plus - sometimes with school support or at least a good teacher recommending books - many recommnedation from posters on here - comics, graphic novels books - dyslexia books ie lower reading age but higher aged content - audio books.

I don't think math wise or reading/writing english they'd have got where they are without the extra home support. Plus we copied our parents with more subtle support they'd offered us that I had though was standard - but accoridng to some of DC teachers wasn't.

However I know at least one adoptive parent on here who put in same or even more support - similar age to my eldest two with similarish problems- and they had not anywhere near as good academic outcomes. So it's not as straight forward with effort in meaning outcome wanted.