To think academic success is 90% of the time down to the parents

[TameSacha]

Sparked by a conversation I had at the school gates last week about how another parent wouldn’t be bothering with half term homework (which was making a collage).

I have DS8 and DD6. I read with each of them daily (they read to me and vice versa, takes about ten minutes per child), we do five minutes on their maths apps each day, and things like times tables songs in the car. We try to do at least one educational trip a term that matches with what one of them is learning about (think looking at and drawing a bridge or going to the local museum for Victorians, not going to Egypt for Egyptians). I read their syllabus each term so we can talk about the topics at home.

To me this is a perfectly normal part of child-rearing and supports the education they get at school, where underpaid teachers are on crowd control with thirty kids, some of whom don’t want to or aren’t able to learn.

AIBU to think it’s a parent’s responsibility to support their child’s learning outside of school?

OP you sound wildly smug about all this. Just because the other parent isn't doing a collage doesn't mean they don't support their child's learning in other ways or that their child is going to flunk their GCSEs. Yes parents supporting learning is helpful but there are plenty of children with engaged parents who still struggle and plenty with uninterested parents who will succeed.

I think parents engaged in the education process has a huge impact but I don't think doing a collage over half term will.

That kid doesn’t do any homework at all, according to DS. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t do very basic, easy things to help your own child succeed at school.

And yes not every child who has support succeeds, but none are going to do worse because they have engaged parents. It’s lazy.

I think parental support is a major factor in educational outcomes, yes. But I’m not sure it’s in the way you are suggesting.

A home where the children are well cared for and education is valued and prioritised will have good outcomes, whether they do a poxy collage in half term or not.

and yes, you sound insufferably smug.

and yes I did all those things that you do with my kids. And yes they did well at school and uni. But no I didn’t always go the crap half term projects.

I think some of it is luck of the draw with lifestyle and circumstances, etc. I feel every day like I'm failing my kids. One has significant SEN and is suicidal (at age 8). The other is dyslexic and really needs my help but my plate is so full just keeping everyone alive that I don't have much left to give. I'm probably proving your point there. There will always be kids who succeed regardless but, as a teacher, you can always tell which kids have more input from parents.

If I were you, I'd be looking outside of the curriculum and school planning to support your child's education. My parents gave me resources to learn Latin (I didn't learn much, but I am familiar enough to grasp word route which helps spelling a lot), took me to Archaeology club (supported art and history knowledge), and St John's Badgers First Aid (knowledge of the human body, communication such as semaphore and morse code, and how to handle an emergency).

When topics came up at school, I was already ready for them, rather than waiting to follow a prescribed curriculum.

(See how easy it is to fall into the trap of being judged for how you support your child?)

I wouldn't like to put a percentage on it!
So I'm a primary school teacher. I have 2 teens. I worked with them both at home, as you say - reading practice, reading to them, Timetables, craft activities, expecting them to do their homework, educational visits, chats over the dinner table about the Romans or WW1...

One of them was receptive and in the main, enjoyed the input from me. They're sailing through school, it seems to be no effort to them. Excellent grades. The other did not want to engage with anything remotely acedemic. They're doing OK, 5 grade 6s would be a reasonable expectation.

Kids are different. Parent involvement can really help. I think expectations do your best and keep trying when you fail help most

Maybe I shouldn’t have mentioned the collage!

Of course making a collage isn’t going to make a huge difference to educational outcomes, but this parent was openly scoffing at the idea and said she couldn’t be bothered, in front of the children. Spending half an hour engaged with your young child talking about art is hardly a challenge. The teacher’s set it for a reason.

I think it just shows a lot of disrespect for the teachers to be honest, and it’s not uncommon. It’s not hard or time-consuming for the parents, it hugely helps the children, so why wouldn’t you do the recommended homework?

There is plenty of international research suggesting that homework in primary school is pointless. And I personally refused to make any of my DC do art based busy work. If they wanted to, I'd provide paper and materials, but I didn't push it.

very true points

Sure academic support at home is important, no one is going to argue with that, but you also need to teach your kids some humility and understanding of other people's lives being different not just bitch about them and pat yourself on the back for being brilliant. The fact you can't imagine why other families might not do exactly what you do, doesn't speak of great intelligence.

DS did very well at GCSE and is on track to get good A level results. He’s done/is doing well in things that I and DH have no idea about. It must be down to the teachers/his own ability.

DD also seems to be doing well.

What we did do was read to them (all the way through primary and into year 7) and listen to them reading. In primary we tested their spellings but homework was optional and we didn’t enforce it. At secondary we make sure they do their homework and we support school generally.

Outside school we’ve supported them to follow their interests.

Overall, I think we have encouraged them to learn and read - and maybe that has helped. It’s hard to say.

Smug much? How about you mind your own business.

And buckle up for the teenage years. 😂😂😂😂

Yes and no. I think it is pretty obvious that behavoiur by parents and the general home environment are going to play a big role in children's development. In order to do well at school, children need an environment where they feel safe, well fed, and valued. They need some appropriate boundaries. It's going to help if school and education are seen as important and they are given time and space to do homework (and it is taken as a given that it should be done). Perhaps some help when needed, but I think it is often just as good to talk about it and direct back to the school if it is beyond them. It is going to help if there are interesting, intelligent conversations and if parents read themselves and read with younger children. Obviously it is good if you support children in pursuing their interests. Some children will do well in even the most adverse circumstances (I can think of some examples in my own family and friends) but most will struggle without the basics.

But I'm not sure there is much benefit to doing much more than the basics ie providing an enabling environent. I think you reach a point where lots of active intervention and involvement does little good and may actually do harm. I've always been pretty hands off myself and my kids have turned out great. But I'm not oblivious to the fact that as the children of two academics in a stable, comfortable home they had a head start.

Knowing where to focus your efforts is a far more useful life skill than blindly doing every piece of homework set.

We don't do craft shit like collages and we don't always do dd2's homework because we did it for a while then I found it all in her bag, not handed in, and no-one had even noticed. It takes her 5 minutes flat because it's far too easy so there's just zero benefit.

There is a lot of context missing from just "this kid never does homework" - absolutely if dc are struggling then it's madness but if it's the other end of the scale they might spend their time doing other stuff that is far more useful and challenging.

My dh had the most uninvolved parents and is wildly successful.
At home I do a lot of what you do, except the collages. I do go through my dc topics for the next term and we talk about it at home. My dc goes to private schools and they are so very brilliant at everything, there is endless resources, guidance at hand, teachers are always available to guide you through as well.

Success is to do with the environment being supportive- home and school need to be supportive.

There’s always an excuse. DH and I work full time, we’re not rich, but still do what the school asks. Reading to/with your primary aged kids should be fundamental.

No not at all, I think most of it's genetic and then providing them with a reasonably good enough environment for them to learn in. Children are active learners and experimenters from the moment they are born. That parent is more likely to mean they couldn't fit it in amongst all the other stuff they are doing that they feel is more valuable. I think it's amazing that if you try and take a term time holiday there's all this shouting about take it in the 13 weeks of school holidays but every holiday my kids come home with a pack of phonics sheets, times table work sheets, a pointless craft activity and a daily reading book. I thought it was our time to let them play, travel, do sports, see relatives etc. I don't see how the homework my primary kids bring home ever helps them and we rarely do it.

It is the parent's responsibility to support learning outside of school but "learning" and "homework" are not synonymous. Expose them to the world, culture, adult conversations around the table, challenging books, give them tasks which put their learning in context - following a recipe, paying for things in the shop.
My parents did zero homework with me. They were as much against it as any person would be against taking work home. Structured learning should be done in school hours. So, not a single day of homework for me and yet, I managed my education just fine and even toyed with the idea of working in academia.
By all means, give your kids educational experiences. But don't think that doing 10 min of homework is a make or break.

I know plenty of adults who were brought up in education focused households, did lots of extra curricular activities, were sent to private schools and they turned out to be well…very normal in very normal part times jobs etc. one is a teacher…one is a sahm married to a bus driver. I know this is anecdotal, but as we all know it’s not always a given, there’s always outliers @TameSacha

Not everyone has capacity. They might work, have other responsibilities or just have poor education themselves. It's why school is important as not everyone gets academic help outside of school.

I don't think it's controversial idea at all that supportive parents help children.

But i also think there is a lot of evidence that poverty and disruption impacts on children, so for some parents prioritising food, shelter etc is going to be the thing they can do that has the biggest impact.

I also have SD14 and when she was in primary, we did the same. Now she’s not interested in reading together (of course!) but she has a great reading and maths level and is doing well.

We don't ever enforce homework at home, or over the holidays. Primary school children need a break and are absolutely exhausted by the time the holidays roll around. DS1 does however read extensively and we have a wide variety of exciting and cultural days out throughout the year. He's interested in life around him and is a clever and happy boy. He's exceeding in most areas of school and this has nothing to do with how much homework he does.

I didn’t do a lot of art with my kids but I took them through a phonics scheme at home before starting school so they were fluent readers when they entered reception, and made sure they knew their tables solidly by the end of KS1 (times tables songs in the car). Education is too important to leave to school: it is the whole of childhood, first through play and discovery as well as study.