To think academic success is 90% of the time down to the parents

[TameSacha]

Sparked by a conversation I had at the school gates last week about how another parent wouldn’t be bothering with half term homework (which was making a collage).

I have DS8 and DD6. I read with each of them daily (they read to me and vice versa, takes about ten minutes per child), we do five minutes on their maths apps each day, and things like times tables songs in the car. We try to do at least one educational trip a term that matches with what one of them is learning about (think looking at and drawing a bridge or going to the local museum for Victorians, not going to Egypt for Egyptians). I read their syllabus each term so we can talk about the topics at home.

To me this is a perfectly normal part of child-rearing and supports the education they get at school, where underpaid teachers are on crowd control with thirty kids, some of whom don’t want to or aren’t able to learn.

AIBU to think it’s a parent’s responsibility to support their child’s learning outside of school?

It will help in supporting a child to reach their potential, but most academic success will be down to natural abilities and the child’s attitude. No amount of pushing will help a person who is only really capable of achieving mid level academically reach the highest grades, and lots of people just breeze through school without having to apply themselves at all.

I was the parent making sure all homework was done and reading and spelling practise completed.

It all counted for nothing when DS decided to spend his two years at sixth form prioritising cars, girls and partying instead of studying for the A levels he was more than capable of smashing had he bothered at all.

Then there is DD who was diagnosed with a chronic health condition at age 12 which then triggered three years of mental health issues and the complete refusal to do anything other than physically turn up for school. Thankfully we got her well enough for her final GCSE year to at least pass a few and get onto a decent college course.

I'm actually embarrassed about how smug I was when my DC were at primary school.

Enjoy the feeling that all is going well now but be prepared for it all to unravel at some point because most parents I know have been through some sort of crisis during the teenage years when all you can focus on is your children's mental and physical well being.

And people wonder why so many children don't bother to do their work and school refusal is through the roof- they've been shown from an early age that it doesn't matter, that gaming and playing is more important, that education is optional.

@HiCandles

You have no idea about the reasons for school refusal. It is not, in the most part, down to poor parenting or failure to do homework.

When my eldest school refused it was due to undiagnosed SEN, he was so anxious at school he didn't feel safe there so ran home ,he was trying to kill himself at the age of 10.

He wasn't led to believe that education was optional when we stopped forcing him to be somewhere he felt unsafe to the point he was trying to escape moving cars or jump in front of gritter trucks. He was parented correctly to ensure that his mental health was put first. Education was put on the back burner, you can't learn if you are as distressed as he was.

School, friends, family all made me feel like a failure when all I was doing was trying to keep my child alive.

He took years to recover adequately to engage properly in education, gaming was his social life, he didn't leave the house.

But despite all predictions we provided the material for his GCSEs he engaged and got good enough grades to go to college where he achieved exceptional a levels won teaching and the governors awards and now he is at one of the most prestigious universities in the country living away from home and totally happy.

I know that not all school refusers achieve those outcomes but the misconception that this is lazy parenting is sickening. For it to come to that point most parents will have done everything to support their child. It is easier to have a child go to school than to have to do what we did.

If a child has homework and asks for some advice or help then that is fine - I spend lots of time helping GC remember tables/spellings etc. But the most important thing is that the child does the homework themselves. They might need encouraging to do so, but over involvement by parents gives the school a false impression of their capabilities, when the teacher needs to be able to judge the child's needs.

Yes, this is a change I have noticed.

At one time it was really up to the student to manage their at home work. Most of the time now the expectation seems to be the parent is managing it.

I think that hugely reduces the benefits for secondary aged kids.

You don't know about those things which is why you shouldn't be judging.

The most significant factors in predicting the educational success of a child is the educational attainment of the parent, wealth and the number of books in the home.

Number of books is of course correlated with wealth.

What school you go to had a very limited impact - roughly half a grade at GCSE.

If the parents are comfortably off, educated and read at home with their child regularly, it has a far greater impact than the school.
(Which is why paying for private school especially at primary is not really worth it)

While I completely agree that parental support is really important, You are really very judgemental and unpleasant. You're also very two dimensional in your thinking - it only seems to apply if its done your way. Parental support also needs to be adapted to the specific needs and interests of the child and it might not necessarily look the same for child a as it does for child b.

As previous posters have said, primary school homework is usually busywork and pointless. I am completely against it and never made the kids do it, especially during lockdown, "design a poster" was the default one. They did their spellings, reading and times tables, and if they wanted to do the other stuff they could but I wasn't making them. DS1 got 10 9s and an 8 at GCSE so I don't think they suffered.

Depends.

I know two lots of parents pretty well, neither enforce homework, both have one parent not working.

First example: Child usually looks unkempt, parents never go to any events at school, (nativity, class assemblies, parent lunches, helping with trips etc.) talk confidently about never opening any messages from school. Basically have no clue what their child is doing and show very little interest in the child's schooling. Not much interaction with other parents or play dates. But are encouraging child to be self sufficient, they wash their own clothes, cook their own dinner etc. So far Child doing ok. Seems confident and happy enough, doing ok at school.

Second example: Child is always beautifully presented, parents are present at all events, lots of extra curricular activities provided, lots of , volunteer at the school, engage with other parents, encourage social activities out side of school. But helicopter parents child has very little independence. So far Child doing ok. Seems happy, maybe a little anxious, excelling academically.

We need all kinds of kids in the world, perhaps the first child will have a different academic success, so will have fewer options about the kind of work they will do, but will be happy, confident and independent. Perhaps the second child will excel at school, get an excellent well paid job, but be less resilient, need more support and help with practical things. Who knows, but raising children is not a one size fits all situation and there is space for everyone.

I agree with you @TameSacha.

I was raised by parents who really cared about my education and supported me a lot, showed an interested, encouraged me to care and to try hard and do well. I was also taught to respect my teachers and appreciate schooling. Particularly from my Dad. This really impacted me positively and I do the same with my children now. I don't think a lot of parents do to be honest. There is a nasty habit of parents constantly defending their kids and blaming everything on teachers and the school. I hate it.

I do however think there are other factors that lead to parents appearing to not care. Their own mental health, family circumstances, domestic abuse, their own experiences with schooling and teachers, their own experiences with their parents, money, life stress, work, bills. All of these things can contribute to someone who maybe doesn't get as involved in their kids schooling or appears to not care.

I happily spent ages helping with reading, or spelling, or maths or going to the museum etc.

I would never enforce "filler" homework at Primary level. But the time DD2 really wanted to make that monster plant? Yes I helped. DH even made a special trip to drive it to school as it was too awkward for the school bus.

Mine are Secondary age now... they know I will help with homework now. They also know the consequences of not doing their homework.

DD1 has dyslexia. School has been a struggle. However... she has an innate drive which means she is doing reasonably well. Her success is more down to that than parenting. It would be wrong to take credit for it. We helped her because she wanted to do well.

DD2 would happily do the bare minimum but is doing well too. We have to be a lot pushier with her.

Parents can push the children in the right direction but they have to want to succeed really.

My son gets bored in class because there’s a lot of disruption, and little time to offer stretch in his class. His teacher spends a lot of time repeating what’s been taught, including going over homework and re-teaching the topics. He has told me that the children who don’t do homework are usually the same children who need more support.

He’s working at a reading level slightly ahead of his class but about ten of them are working at a level several years behind. They are sat on tables according to ability for reading with colour banded books which is how he knows this.

So you’re taking the credit for any future success of your dc… nice.
plenty of first generation graduates had little input from their dps.

The research on homework in primary school does suggest that it's not effective.

I think part of the issue is really poor teaching at the school - a lot of the loss of explicit teaching as some mentioned above, and all kinds of supposedly enrichment stuff while ignoring basics. A basic education that is interesting is neither rocket science, nor boring.

I don't blame teachers for f-ing it up, but I do blame schools.

I think it's largely down to genetics, and ability to understand what is being taught.
I think parental attitude makes a difference, children do better if parents value education.
But I think a lot of homework especially in primary school is a waste of everyones time.

I wasted time on arts things my son had zero interest in and they were never looked at again.

early years were fine for homework but his GcSE maths etc I have zero idea or understanding so can’t really assist.

Explicit teaching has been back in vogue since before covid so this is outdated.

Yeah I don’t do any of that apart from reading at bedtime. My kids do lots of sport and extracurricular things out of school as I think that is where I can help best. Holidays are for fun and to chill a bit. One of mine is artistic so so would probably want to do a collage. One would not ever be interested. But that one is a high achiever in maths and that is nothing to do with us as parents doing anything. He just has the gift. So having a secure loving home is prob most important.

You are correct OP.

Tbh I don’t think there is anything wrong about being smug about supporting your child with their education and being engaged with it 🤷‍♀️ I do a LOT with my son and I know that a lot of his academic attainment is because of the effort I put in alongside him. I also know that that is directly linked to me being a good mum. If someone wants to think that’s me being smug then so be it. I’m not saying it’s the only way to be a good parent.

Aaah, you're THAT parent. The one whose poor little darling is not being "stretched" etc etc. If your child is working ahead of peers, then yes, additional parental support is helpful because the school can't manage it. But my god, the judgement ddripping from you.... argh.

My children don't do homework. The evidence is very clear that homework at primary age does not improve academic attainment. Instead, my kids engage in sports which cross the midline, have very limited screen time, read a lot and have lots of time for outdoor unstructured play and positive risk taking. All of which ARE evidence based to improve academic attainment.

So whilst I don't disagree that educational attainments is often down to parental involvement - there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Having a parent who is engaged and involved in their child's education definitely makes a difference. With regards to homework set by the school, most of the time it's not the learning from the homework in itself but the message that as a parent you expect your child to respect the rules set by the teachers.

If it's any help, we did all of that.
DH and I were brought up by grammar educated parents and thought that education was the most important thing.

Turns out, we're not quite right.

Dc1 straight A student now sitting GCSEs. Dreadful mock results. Hates the English teacher and keen to fail to show her up. Wants to quit education and join the army hence GCSEs are totally irrelevant to them.

Good foundations don't necessarily translate into good academic outcomes. DC will be fine. They understand our dislike of minority enlistment and are set on a vocational course next year where they expect to work hard and get straight distinctions. Then either degree apprenticeship or army.

They will earn more than us. (We're public sector so proof that distinctions in a masters degree don't guarantee high salaries).
They will be successful.
As will the kids who didn't spend their school holidays bring dragged around museums and book shops.

I would agree with you- but I haven't bothered with her half term homework- growing cress (we do it regularly). However we have read everyday we have done some maths, found out some facts about animals, visited a stately home and talked about the dress servants would have worn, talked about what they would have done etc
We have also gone shopping, gone to soft play, done lots of reading of signs and things, played schools, played buses and trains and played with friends... so yes completely ignoring her homework here!!