Just a question re transgender

[drasticdonkey]

I'm part of a following online (think sci-fi) and I've noticed that this group of people is increasingly made of trans people/gender fluid/queer people etc.

Not only that, but as I've gotten to know the group more/become closer to people I've noticed the following:

• The prevalence of mental health issues in this group
• the prevalence of adhd/autism in this group
• many of them have POTS, or chronic pain conditions or ehlers Danlos.
• the clothing and hair is also very similar, almost like a uniform
• they enjoy certain sci fi shows/certain characters and really become fixated on every aspect of it
• fights often erupt as people get easily offended over very silly things and almost compete to be the "worst off or have the worst mental health" if that makes sense

I suppose my question and thoughts turned to "is any of this connected?!". Has any science/research properly investigated these links? Aibu to wonder if all these things are connected - in particular the medical aspects?

I'm not aiming to offend on this thread but really I'm just curious re the genetic aspect

I understand that point, but I think for some people it's not enough to express one's self a certain way and the identity that feels most comfortable is important. I have a non binary kid who I support but I have also told them I feel if one wants to kick against ideas of gender it's a stronger standpoint to present and act how you wish whichever sex you are. Though I acknowledge that is not the sole point of being trans or enby but I wanted it to be something to consider.

Yes, I completely get where you're coming from.

I'm mid 30s female (trans male to clarify) with a history of childhood trauma and SA, currently going through an ASD diagnosis. And each group I join, or try to be a part of, I can't help but look at it from an outsiders perspective and realise how similar we all are.

I think the only real difference I saw was that I want to know why. I know I'm not "normal" and I'd happily take part in research, tests etc to find out more, whereas other seem much happier to continue.
Then again, I was trans before it became so popular - probably not the best word but only one I can think of - and I did perfectly fine without announcing pronouns, coming out parties and toilet drama.

Lots of interesting observations from real life here. Thanks for starting the thread, OP.

The mental-health aspect is very obvious, and I’d also heard of bullying, sexual abuse and other childhood traumas causing distress that, in a gender-soaked world, could be interpreted, by a child, as being in the wrong body.

But there’s also a lot here I didn’t know about.

Adult men identifying their way into women’s changing rooms, winning women’s medals etc is not in the least puzzling. There have always been sex pests and cheats, but society never used to encourage them!

But the rising number of young people being given harmful drugs and operations makes gender questioning a massive social concern. This thread is providing useful information and connections.

All this trying to find your tribe. I’m pretty ancient but as a teen I had weekend and holiday jobs. You’re thrown in amongst a group of adults you do not know and have to learn quickly and fit in. Gave me, with hindsight, a good idea of how others live, helped me realise how lucky I was (it wasn’t going to become my lifelong work) and just gave me insight to a totally different part of society.
Now teens mix with just teens and mostly online. Not great for learning about the world/ people.

I see it as similar to Paris Hilton and handbag dogs. They were The accessory amongst slebs, now it’s “trans” kids. But once the mere mortals started doing having tiny dogs, slebs moved on to something else (in PH case surrogate baby). Hopefully this transposes to the current fad.
I’ve found most online groups (except one for my dog’s breed and fountain pens) tend to veer eventually to the more vociferous members. Craft groups are notorious, got kicked off a huge US based sewing group for showing a I ❤️ JK Rowling embroidery. (Well I knew what the reaction would be, but thought I’d go out with a bang.)

What on earth does POTs got to do with it?! POTS is a dysregulation condition of the heart and blood pressure definitely not voluntary.
I also have POTS and long covid can't say anyone I know with both conditions is transgender etc

got kicked off a huge US based sewing group for showing a I ❤️ JK Rowling embroidery. (Well I knew what the reaction would be, but thought I’d go out with a bang.)

Yay! Well done, Ohwhat. Let’s hope they were dropping stitches all over the place in their flurry of rage.

I have directly discussed it with doctors several times, and have had online aspects cited in why some services have closed down.

So you are encouraging this nonsense with your own child. There is no such thing as 'non binary'. EVERYONE is 'non binary' by default; no one on earth is 100% female stereotypes or 100% male stereotypes. In fact, the default is actually non-binary. So your child is using a label to feel special and unique, when in fact they are just the same as everyone else.

Depends though doesn't it? If you're autistic just being thrown together with a load of other people and then being expected to work out "how to fit in and quickly" is a recipe for disaster. You do know its a disability w social and communication impairments right?

@Elephantsarenottheonlyfruit On the contrary, I am referring to the low quality of the evidence that you think is much more compelling than it actually is. You can believe what you want, but no one who actually works in this field would disagree with me (unless, I suppose, they're in the business of enriching themselves by selling private diagnoses to the worried well identitarians...!) that the research population thing is a massive problem. It has hindered actual research on these patient groups hugely, which only makes things worse for the real patients. This is freely discussed among clinicians, and acknowledged by them to, again, the genuine patients.

Again, I'm not trying to stop you from believing what you want (such as that weak evidence is stronger than it is), but facts are facts.

A need to escape the trauma of SA that females experience, makes you feel identifying as male means you are safer. No need for tests, you've said it yourself. Its about your SA and childhood trauma and a need to 'escape' from that. Not actually trans.

@Elephantsarenottheonlyfruit Do feel free to cite this incredibly compelling and decisive evidence of the strong links between neurodiversity and the other conditions discussed here, btw. If I'm wrong and a strong link with strong evidence has in fact emerged, I'd like to know about it! But I suspect you are just peddling the party line as so many do. There is a reason that all these conditions are evaluated in isolation and are not seen as clinically linked entities.

The semi-colon person was not the paralysed person.

Yes . I’m adhd possibly autism - so can sympathise.

Hannah Barnes went through the data
as did the Cass review

its all in black and white

I appreciate the desire to switch off sometimes and consume fun media, but I think it's important to bear in mind that sci-fi has always been a very political and philosophical genre! It's not unusual to find these kinds of themes because many, if not the majority- of sci-fi works use speculative settings and advancements to explore political themes. Frankenstein is often cited as the first example of "science fiction" as we know it today, and the book is just as much about the responsibilities of parenthood and ethics of pursuit of knowledge as it is about a scientist creating a monster. Many of the most popular sci-fi stories today are even more political- Star Wars, Dune, and Brave New World all come to mind, as well as children's sci-fi media such as Wall-E.

That's not to say you can't or shouldn't enjoy sci-fi just for the fun of it- I often do! But it makes sense that these stories attract people with an interest in these politics, and that a lot of fan-spaces centre political discussion. For an autistic person with a tendency to hyperfixate, sci-fi fan spaces are a rare example of a community thinking as intensely about something as we naturally seem to do, and where discussion on that level is encouraged. As there appears to be a correlation between ASD and gender dysphoria, it doesn't surprise me that there's a crossover in interest there.

(There's also an element where I think speculative fiction appeals to people trying to escape the pressures of life, the societal pressures of gender and, in relation to your mention of EDS and related conditions, the societal and medical pressures of disability. Sci-fi often includes settings where these pressures are either non-existent or very different to those experienced in real life, so it naturally seems to have become an escapist space for many. I need to think more on that to make a more substantial point, though.)

I wonder if the huge number of diagnosed autistic people are related. A well known influencer who has adult ADHD has posted a few things as part of her diagnosis that I think are completely typical. Getting overwhelmed at work, finding your kids a bit much at the end of a summer holiday, getting a bit distracted in your mind numbing office job 🤣

In my sons class, he is one of the only kids in his friendship group that doesn't have a label. He often asks if "he can be autistic too so he can have a fidget toy"

I understand the previous posters saying that this type of behaviour affects the people that really suffer from the issues. It almost blurs out the people that really need help in a sea of people that self diagnose or simply make up illnesses.

I'm not sure why but these gender fluid people on the fandom tend to have the following in any combination.

• POTS

-ADHD / autism

• anxiety
• depression and previous suicide attempts
• eating disorders
• EDS
• chronic pain
• some other fatigue causing illness or chronic pain illness that isn't yet diagnosed and is a mystery
• long Covid

Etc.

The number of them would suggest this is no coincidence and there must be a link.

I have tended all my life to think of SF as "what if" fiction: what if there were this or that thing unlike that which we live with here, as it might be a low gravity environment: how would this alter eg transport methods and needs, or recreation? What if teleportation were a practical means of getting from a booth in Kansas to a booth in Paris? What if time travel worked? (And define time travel: does five minutes into the past count? And would preventing X thing from happening be a good or a bad thing, and how could you tell in advance, or would you have to make small alterations over and over and over?) What if a drug put into the water supply compelled anyone who had drunk it to be honest: what would that do to politics, and indeed to politicians, or to personal relationships?

But on the whole, sod the politics! It's the possibilities that interest me.

Birds of a feather...

I think science is likely to find a lot of connections in the next ten years!

I say this as one of the people with a lot of these conditions. As a baby I was diagnosed with severe chronic eczema and hayfever, has a high co-morbidity rate with other allergic conditions and, in turn, those have a high co-morbidity rate with hypermobility spectrum disorders including hEDS. Autism was first suspected by my family when I was in pre-school, but it wasn't until I fell apart in secondary school due to anxiety and chronic migraine that I was referred to CAMHS and diagnosed with autism and ADHD. It was the ADHD clinic that first picked up dysautonomia, because they test heart rate and blood pressure frequently when starting ADHD meds.

I didn't end up getting diagnosed as hypermobile until adulthood, when one of my knees dislocated thanks to the simple act of standing up. Looking back, considering the list of co-morbidities, it was pretty much inevitable 😂

I know a lot of people with similar health profiles- a combination of neurodevelopmental disorders, autoimmune, allergic, and dysautonomic conditions- we have a tendency to flock together I think! They're not people I found by seeking out similar people but instead met mostly through hobby groups and shared interest spaces. I'm really interested in seeing how studies look further into these connections and whether or not there's a causative connection or simply a correlation; I think it's going to be fascinating as more data comes out.

Honestly OP you linking multiple health conditions to then being gender fluid is very odd.
People with long term health conditions struggle enough to get diagnosis. The concept that you can simply have POTS because you wish to is farcical. It's a full on set of tests in some cases a tilt table and monitoring blood pressure.

I am in support groups for chronic/long term health conditions there isn't a large majority who are trans more women yes but that link is quite well known along with women's health parity including research.

It isn't "inevitable" at all that those comorbidities would lead to a diagnosis of hypermobility. Again, this is misinformation based on the common myth that there is a proven, definitive link between all of these conditions. Some of them commonly co occur, such as EDS and POTS, but some of the suggested links (such as EDS and autism) are still based on only weak and low quality evidence. Stronger evidence may well emerge with time, and it will be clinically interesting and helpful if that does happen, but it's misleading to misstate the current level of evidence.

If you are in groups online dealing with medical conditions then I am surprised you haven't seen the phenomenon OP is discussing. She is talking about something absolutely real and observable. I recommend looking for it yourself before criticising her for raising it as a topic of discussion. Identity labels are very appealing to some personality types, and especially to younger people. It doesn't mean these illnesses aren't real, but it may mean that a lot of people diagnosed with them don't necessarily have "true and honest" diagnoses (accurate, thoroughly validated and confirmed, not self diagnosed or "cheated" on a clinical test, not bought from a corrupt private doctor).

I can't help wondering where all this has come from? I'm 58 and I don't recall us having all these alphabet diseases when I was growing up (apart from VD)...

Anyone who grew up in the late 80s will remember the huge trend of people claiming to be sexually abused as children by Satanists, which is practically unheard of these days. Any oldies here, remember that?

Could it just all be a fad, like hot pants? I remember as I child seeing my aunts fat legs squeezed into a pair and I knew it would die a death...