Just a question re transgender

[drasticdonkey]

I'm part of a following online (think sci-fi) and I've noticed that this group of people is increasingly made of trans people/gender fluid/queer people etc.

Not only that, but as I've gotten to know the group more/become closer to people I've noticed the following:

• The prevalence of mental health issues in this group
• the prevalence of adhd/autism in this group
• many of them have POTS, or chronic pain conditions or ehlers Danlos.
• the clothing and hair is also very similar, almost like a uniform
• they enjoy certain sci fi shows/certain characters and really become fixated on every aspect of it
• fights often erupt as people get easily offended over very silly things and almost compete to be the "worst off or have the worst mental health" if that makes sense

I suppose my question and thoughts turned to "is any of this connected?!". Has any science/research properly investigated these links? Aibu to wonder if all these things are connected - in particular the medical aspects?

I'm not aiming to offend on this thread but really I'm just curious re the genetic aspect

Lots of what the OP described: Most of the people in the group seemed to have ADHD/Autism, other neurological illnesses, it seemed to be a competition to be the ‘worst’ and have the worst life. E.g. My POTS can be really severe, especially during pregnancy, and I often faint. When talking about this, I felt that some were trying to ‘one up’ me and prove that their dizziness was worse and sometimes required a wheelchair.

I also felt there was no actual desire for anyone to find ways to manage the condition, it was just a complain-fest. Also a huge focus on getting disability benefits and what everyone was eligible for. I suggested a new sodium drink that has really helped my mornings, and they seemed almost angry that I was trying to find a solution. Lots of gender stuff/pronouns which was annoying and took the focus off actually finding support for the condition.

I joined an online support group in a different country, and the experience has been much better. A huge focus on research and they have excellent webinars that have really helped my life. The people in the forum are much better, though I wonder if it would be the same face-to-face.

My understanding is chronic illness such as EDS/CFS/ME/POTS/long covid is more common in neurodivergent people (or that ND is more common in ppl with EDS , and the other illnesses are comorbidities). And identifying as Trans is more common in ND people for many reasons already stated in this thread.
The chronic illness and the trans aren’t linked directly, it’s the neurodivergence that’s the link.

I have one of these chronic illnesses (and probably a mild form of EDS but not dx with that). The dismissive attitudes I have encountered in my health care are unreal. Some of them evident on this thread.

I don't know the specific people you are referring to but people like this are why I avoid general 'disability groups' (apart from groups for my own neurological condition). They tend to colonise every space or thread around disability. They make outrageous demands and irritate the general public. They are often visibly mentally ill but no one is really allowed to mention this. Their key identity is victim.

Meanwhile the disabled people I know (me included) are normal people getting on with our lives - working, raising families, striving to be well. The couple of private groups I'm in are full of positive, admirable people doing their best.

Why would you ask this question on such a blatantly anti trans forum as MN?

Why would expect a reasoned, appropriate response?

Do your own research, or ask in appropriate places.

People who know young transgender people, I’m interested to know if any of them self-harm or are anorexic, or are goths? Those were the big social contagions for disenfranchised teens when I was young twenty years ago.

I suspect a lot of those teens I knew would now identify as trans if they were teens today.

Yep, they harm the rest of us who are just trying to get on with life as best we can, but you can't say anything or you're a nazi!

By anti-trans do you mean the women who want to protect single-sex spaces and know a man is not a woman?

People with POTS diagnoses online are not necessarily "really" ill. The difficult thing is that some are, for sure, especially with the impact from Covid. But in the online communities and on TikTok, they tell each other how to cheat on and manipulate the diagnostic testing. So there are the self diagnosers, but even the diagnosed ones may have faked their result.

When they all dress the same it's because they are expressing their unique and special identity.

@Jabtastic Yes, I completely agree with this. Disability groups used to be at least somewhat useful even if they were always a bit victimy. But now have become almost insane in the competitive need to be the sickest and most oppressed, to get the most labels, to be the most right on in other politics, etc. They don't have space for disabled people who want to live reasonably normal lives.

I have noticed the correlation between alternative gender presentation and Long Covid, to the extent that I cannot really take LC at all seriously. I am sure that one or two people actually have it, but a LOT don't.

I wonder whether it's something to do with the way focus can work. How quickly people will be able to / prepared to move on from an idea / feeling which then really can take hold. Also the tolerance of cognitive dissonance and wanting to make sense of / order any complex resulting in categorising feelings rather than leave them a mystery or unresolved.

I wonder if part of the apparent link between cfs/long covid and these "identities" is simply that being unwell and relatively housebound is likely to drive you even further than the norm for your age group, to seeking your social interaction and affirmation on line, where for one thing, people's sexed bodies are not especially conspicuous in the interactions (as they would be in the park or classroom say).

Similar cultural and social consequences to the pandemic in other words.

It is not definitively proven that there is a strong link between these conditions. The diagnostic pools are so tainted by self diagnosis and "bought" diagnoses from unethical private doctors that meaningful research, even, is hard to do. There is some early evidence that there may possibly be a link between ND and EDS, but this connection is repeated frequently as a proven connection, which it just is not. The evidence at this stage is still minimal and there is no connection at the diagnostic stage.

@StMarie4me
Honestly mumsnet is my go to place for research! If I have a sick kid or I'm worried about a health condition, I often find mumsnet a decent place for advice and support. Of course it doesn't trump pubmed or my GP but at 11pm when I'm laying there in bed worried about something, it does help!

Same with this topic. It's a place I mostly trust. We've seen on this thread... we've heard from people with chronic health issues, those with autism, those with autistic kids and medical professionals.

Yes, many young transgender identifying people also have comorbid ED issues.

I disagree with you - there is good evidence of a link between neurodiversity and hypermobile conditions

Several years ago (possibly pre-Covid) I heard a doctor (psychiatrist or psychologist, can’t remember which) on the radio say that the evidence shows that 60-90% of those who ID as trans have co-morbid mental health problems. Most of which go untreated as soon as trans walks in through the door.

The most horrifying stat from Hannah Barnes’ work is that 10% of children referred to gender clinics have a sex offender as a parent.

And yet there are TRAs trying to stop any kind of research around this from going ahead or being published.

It’s a colossal medical scandal.

Mumsnet isn't anti trans, just anti bullshit. And posters don't like being bullied for daring to say something that trans people don't like.

@Elephantsarenottheonlyfruit No, there isn't strong evidence at this stage. Just saying that you think there is doesn't make it so! The conditions are diagnosed totally separately and it's very difficult, as I pointed out, to even research this as the populations are so tainted by poor quality diagnostics. Tbh it doesn't come across as if you understand the issues affecting this.

(There is some slight evidence suggesting a link between EDS / hypermobility and autism, but again the issue of poor diagnostics feeds into this too.)

I've taught 3 transgender students and all three had MH issues as well as autism/adhd. There's definitely a link there.

As a child most people thought I was a boy. I had very short hair and wore shorts/jeans and hated the concept of being a girl. I wished I was born male. I always thought of myself as a boy. I also have autism.

I do worry that if I'd grown up now, I would have been pushed down the transgender route. But today as a grown up I couldn't care less. I'm female because I was born female, but I don't see why that matters. It's just biological. I'm me and don't need a label or to change what I am or even feel the need to change anything.

If society stopped being so obsessed with labelling people then it wouldn't really matter. The only important label in life is whether a person is kind.

People with chronic illnesses, or have been through trauma or otherwise had difficult lives find comfort in fantasy/sci fi and things that are very far away from the realities of their lives.
It doesn’t take a genius to work this out.

in groups of young people in particular there is a phenomenon called social contagion.
In psychology, "social contagion" refers to the phenomenon where attitudes, emotions, or behaviours spread spontaneously through a group of people, similar to how a disease spreads, with individuals unconsciously adopting the traits of those around them, often through imitation or social influence; essentially, the "catching" of behaviours or emotions from others within a social network.

ND seem to be much more susceptible and social media, gaming communities have been shown to accelerate the process.

Again, I disagree with you. You are uninformed. Perhaps you could do a literature search on the terms and inform yourself so you can come across as understanding the issues x