I never thought I'd see the US aligning with Russia

[VolcanoJapan]

The US appear under Trump to be aligning with Putin and Russia more and more.

What was until recently referred to as our greatest allie is moving close to Russia in many ways, carving up Ukraine for Russia, trade deals with Russia.

It's bizarre.

Aibu to think it's bizarre or was this always coming when trump was elected?

They are weak for their size. America has weak leadership. Russia has a psycho in charge and a massively depleted army and weaponry. But they still just have much more in terms of resources than any European country.

And when Biden beat him fair and square he wouldn’t accept it and led an assault on the Capitol.

Unfortunately, it’s not just 4 years. The harm he is doing will be enduring - for the US, not just its erstwhile allies.

Yeah

I think it all depends very much on this peace in Ukraine because;

Russia is desperate for money. Their economy is in huge trouble

If UK and EU seized those sanctioned assets it froze from Russia, they would have funding to rearm and they do not have nothing. This is a key question because the EU countries and the U.K. will have to decide what they do on sanctions and Russian money.

Putin wants to be back in the G8 and with all the benefits. But the chances are that the European economies may feel he is not worth the risk. They control a lot of Russian assets now. Trump is not in charge of that.

Interesting then that the EU imposed some more sanctions yesterday, This is closed shop which Trump or Putin cannot effect.

Europe lacks time, not money.

Aww, bless.
Of course they do 🙄

Meanwhile, in the real world of Republican voter suppression, it is far, far from the truth that all US citizens get a vote.

Europe lacks time and money. Sanctions on Russia have also harmed the EU, as anyone who pays for their gas central heating knows.

Well the money is there; frozen in sanctions. Russia wants it back.

This is a European question. We can let go of that money or not. Or we can use it ourselves

And relying on Russia for energy is now for fools, isn't it? So we can all forget about low heating bills. That is over,

In any case I genuinely that for all their bravado, it’s actually America and Russia who are weak which is way they are being so aggressive. We need to have cool heads an out strategise them

I don't think they would be weak, and we'd be at huge risk if we were to try and test that

Relying on anywhere for energy is dangerous. Also not actually a choice - even alternatives require resources obtained from elsewhere in the world, even if only to build solar panels, wind turbines, nuclear facilities, etc. What is required is stability and certainty, neither of which the US offers the world any more. Untrustworthy allies are not worth it.

In any case I feel we need to stop referring to the USA as an ally. Trump has told us several times now to go fuck outselves. We need to listen. If my friend kept telling me to go fuck myself and threatened to harm me, I wouldn’t continue calling them my friend.

A sizable number of Russians don’t support Putin but we still refer to Russia as a hostile nation. We should put America the same class.

America have never been benevolent it’s always been America first. They joined WW2 very late after lots of begging and then gave us lots of financial and military ‘aid’ that kept us in debt to them until the late 90s.

Now they want us to up our defense spending i.e give American arms manufacturers money. I agree we should increase defense but we should only buy British or European followed by anywhere but American.

Yes a convicted felon is not allowed to vote hence scores of black men jailed for having a bag of weed lose their vote for life, whilst a convicted felon can be President. Bonkers.

Surely the truth will come out eventually as to why Trump is appeasing Putin in this way - it's 'Make Russia Great Again' basically. Shall we all get the MRGA hats? Any Trump / Musk rhetoric about 'the threat to free speech' within US / Europe just flew out the window.

Trump is parroting Putin's delusional rhetoric on the global stage. Pandering to a murderous dictator who would eat him for breakfast.

There is bound to be a paper trail which would reveal how Russian oligarchies are key to Trump's wealth. Pro-Trump interference by Russia in US elections? Or Putin has video evidence of Trump with prostitutes or something? It will come out in the fullness of history. Just not soon enough.

And now Starmer has a planned visit to Washington next week. How very awkward. The optics of an official visit to a Putin-sycophant. Not the best look.

I think the Trump administration is so unpredictable now, that there is no point trying to engage in normal diplomatic relations. European leaders need to just take a stand at this point and call it out for what it is - it's only going to get worse.

@Coolasfeck - I think Europe got the message! America is now an unreliable ally; it won't be fulfilling its old role multilaterally. The Trump support I have seen on MN are really keen on this, they like what he does.

The US is not that reliable. The U.K. must make its own plans. We still have some advantages but this "special relationship" is dead. I'm sure we will still try and use it. But to rely on it is mad.

Whether Trump is clever or foolish does not matter. He is volatile. And good allies are not that.

Doubtful anyone can claim no collusion with Russia. Trump is clearly their pawn. His language yesterday was delusional but true to form, he hopes the more he repeats it, the easier it will be swallowed by those around him. We knew this would happen though, as soon as it was confirmed his people had elected him again. So, we all watch together as the madness continues to unfold.

Europe standing together is powerful.

Surely even he and his supporters can see he comes over as a pawn, not a great man. How can his ego cope with that. Putin's boy, doing the work for Putin.

Personally I would like the EU to drop its procurement rules, seize Russian assets, and start spending like now on arms. The faster this is done the better. Trump would also get all the security briefings from NATO. After yesterday that would seem to be worrying, along with our security links.

If we have a war, we will be doing it anyway. The US can play Footsie with Russia. But Europe can't do so.

The UK has built its post war security system with the US. We need to consider a world where that doesn't happen. The US is ambivalent to the UK and Europe at best. Look at the language of their politicians and their voters.

Europe standing together is powerful.

Even Zelenskyy has said US is needed to win.

European leaders know they are need the US too and won't do a small amount of troops without their backing.

There's not much point in proposing it as even if the US says sure we'll be there it can change the next day.

Yes.

Use Russian assets and give to Ukraine to fight off the invader.

Europe need to come together. This is on our doorstep.

Ukraine is the immediate issue.

But those of us in the country should think carefully about Trump being in charge of US security policy. In aligning with Russia, the US can be an effective threat.

Trump is part of NATO. If he really is aligning with Russia this country is in huge trouble. All of us.

I think the assumption has to be that the US won't help Ukraine whilst the orange puppet is trying to do anything to keep Putin smiling. Trump just wants to help give Ukraine kand to Putin. What next, bits of Poland?

The temptation is to say it's just Ukraine.

But the UK and the US have been sharing security and military intelligence and policy for decades. Closer than NATO. Much closer. Trump is now in charge of how that works to a great extent.

All the glee about Vance and Trump is for US domestic consumption as the US begins to isolate. He wants to disarm and cut Pentagon funding. The signals are there.

European countries (not the EU) need their own security policy. And the EU should buckle up and create rules to deal with the Putin friendly governments it is going to get. Because it is going to get them soon,

Boris Johnson is talking about unlocking assets.

First I've heard of that proposal. I'd be wary of anything that ups the ante with US

We currently have a slim and unpredictable path with them, but it's not out and out enemy and combined Russia and US v Europe

I'd rather avoid the latter. People need to think stuff through.

@EasternStandard that has been on the table for months! Johnson would have known it from his time as PM. I expect it was opposed by the US. But if Trump is going to do this, then he is not going to be in charge of frozen assets and sanctions.

Both the EU and the UK have a lot of sanctioned Russian assets. It is a clear source of military spending.

And it would weaken Russia greatly. They want it back.