to think some people think WFH should be a constant nose to the grindstone?

[Yodeloo]

I think some jobs are like that definitely. Heavy workload, helplines etc

Some people think all WFH should be like this and get horrified because someone hung some washing out or helped out a family member for a short time. Plenty of jobs have flexibility and it is about getting the job done not just being present in front of the computer non stop.

I get all my life admin done throughout the day around work. I do an exercise class most mornings and then start work later on the days I WFH. I will meet up with friends, work on my side business. Nobody cares at my work. All targets are met consistently.

Is it jealousy that people get so upset?

Or they want to make work work for them and have found a way to do so while still meeting their targets and doing their job well

and again all jobs differ, you wouldn’t be able to do the above in my job 🤷🏻

(and why would you want to? You job sounds better than my admin/phone job 😀)

Big up to the civil servants working at the Passport Office. I've had great speedy service from them post-covid, whether they are WFH or office based. I don't understand why they are often chosen as an example of WFH shirkers!

There isn’t for me. If I don’t have work to do I don’t have work to do, so I may as well do something else instead instead of sitting at my desk staring at Outlook.

I am very efficient and organized at work. My work also ebbs and flows. Sometimes I might work on my day off to keep a project on schedule. Other times I’m twiddling my thumbs.

Well, quite - I know people who absolutely couldn’t do this - because their job is completely different to mine!!

I couldn’t agree more. I could WFH most days if I wanted so it’s not jealousy on my part. It’s being in a team who mostly do, and are geographically dispersed anyway, which in this age of technology is not supposed to matter but my God it does. I think perhaps because some of the team have never known anything else they don’t realise how unproductive the way we do things actually is!
Also, why do WFH zealots always dismiss office talk as “ inane chit chat”? I have had some really interesting workplace conversations over the years and have several genuine friends picked up along the way.

Oops, my post was agreeing with this:

Being measured by outcomes is all very well, but as we all know, time is money and having a good outcome is as much about delivering in an acceptable timeframe as it is about delivering a quality result. If you are required to interact with other people and all of you have to wait around more than would usually be necessary because so many of you are working remotely to your own personalised schedule there will be an impact on productivity. There just will and there's no point in trying to argue otherwise.

Presumably because their experience has been different to yours.

Which boils down to the fact that generalising is bad. One person's useful conversations is another person's inane distraction. Sometimes that can even be true in one single conversation! We'd all do better if we understood that our job and experience isn't the default.

We've renewed both DP's and my passport since covid and also got DC1's first passport. In all cases the new passports arrived within a week of sending off the application (standard timescale is quoted as up to 3 weeks iirc). The whole thing was very easy and quick to arrange and definitely not a good example of wfh causing issues, or of classic public sector inefficiency!

Presumably because their experience has been different to yours.
Well, it will be. But I’ve had nearly 30 years of working experience, across a range of very different industries and organisations. Sometimes in jobs that were very reactive and fire fighty, sometimes in roles that were much more strategic or task based. I’ve worked in 3 different countries and for all kinds of bosses. I’ve never experienced the sense of disconnection I do in my current job, where John can’t ever attend a meeting between 3 and 4 because of the school run, and Jill is mysteriously unavailable between 12 and 2 and Clare “ condenses” her hours so she doesn’t work Mondays. All in the name of flexibility, and I’m all
for people living their best lives, but it’s not half frustrating for someone who is solution focused and wants to get shit done.
Im in the public sector now too so there’s a fair bit of wasting tax payers money with inefficiency going on.
Again, not inexperience or envy- quite the opposite.

All of which is valid, as one person's experience. It doesn't tell us anything about how other people feel or function best. In all those different jobs across multiple decades, you were always still you!

No doubt some of the people you've worked with felt frustrated with the conditions that suited you, and find they get greatly more shit done without the expectation of interesting conversations, or even being in an environment where that's going on. Still others wouldn't have had access to those roles in the first place because the conditions functioned as a barrier.

The answer to this, as with most remote working discussions is.... it depends.

This just seems like penalising people for being efficient, though, as do lots of the objections on this thread. Why should someone quick and efficient have to have fewer contracted hours or more work because they're good at their job? What's the point in trying hard if it just gets you less money or more work? It doesn't make sense.

My current role has always been remote, no office to go “back” to.

Its never taken me the full 8hrs a day so when a call went out for volunteers to help another team, I offered (I was the only one who did!). So now I do 2 roles in my work time. I’m also the first port of call for any queries from colleagues and have completed some individual work projects in addition to the main work. I never turn down a request to do a task.

I still have time to do personal tasks in my work day. How much more should I be taking on? When I have colleagues who will faff around taking all day to do something I can do in an hour. I don’t even think some of them are shirking, they’re just slow.

Theres actually a balance between doing enough work to be seen as productive and taking on so much, that people will end up thinking you can’t be doing any of it well because it’s so much more than anyone else is doing.

Also when I am working, I work intensively, something that wfh allows me to do which an open plan office didn’t. But I couldn’t work at that level every hour of every day as I’d burn out. So there’s also a balance there to be struck.

What exactly is cheating about getting your work done on time (or early) and to a good standard?

Just because you've never experienced something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Get out of here with your logic and common sense

There is not always work to do in my role. I have had many days where no work has come in. So I am free to do whatever I want. I run my own business alongside my main job so this fills the gap along with exercise, seeing friends, chores, DIY etc.

I am quick and efficient…its just my work (low level) never ends!

i have zero problem with people finishing early and waiting for work or being able to take a long break between work for various reasons but its a bit tiresome to keep hearing that people who work shorter hours do so because they are quick and efficient and good at their jonbs and better at work life balance etc

its just as irritating as being told you are cheating 😀

Ok, that's you and understandable. However I KNOW there are others that cheat their employees I've seen it, heard it, heard parents bragging about it at the school gates etc, I'm not saying any of you lot are those people.

People take the piss in every job and always have done - whether they WFH, in an office, in a shop, in a factory - it makes no difference.

If people are under-performing or taking the piss, that's for management to solve. It doesn't mean that people who can be flexible or who do have legitimate periods of downtime in their days should be punished.

If someone is lucky enough to work in a flexible role where they can take time out on quiet days to go to the gym or get a coffee, then bloody good for them IMO.

I work from home. I get my work done. And I also do life admin, go to the supermarket, go swimming, have a lie down sometimes. I really don’t give a fuck what anyone else thinks about it, except my line manager (who is very happy with my work and the amount I get done). Your jealousy, bitterness, wilful ignorance, complete lack of critical thinking and rage about my working practices is only hurting yourself. If you don’t like that your job doesn’t let you do the same do something about it instead of whining and taking your misery out on those that do. Not everyone has to have a shit life or job just because you do.

Honestly, some people can’t think beyond their own experiences. Some roles are a constant stream of work coming your way and others are more project type where you have busy times and quiet times. Some jobs you can’t work at same level all day otherwise you burn out.

My role is basically writing reports. Sometimes I find I am getting nowhere so will find a reason to go over to another building which can be 5-10 mins walk away or go grab a cuppa. I come back to my desk with fresh eyes and more focus. If someone WFH finds that throwing a load of laundry into the washing machine helps them find their focus again then so what.

If I was slacking when wfh and didn't have much work, then I would be worrying that my job wasn't safe, particularly if there are redundancies on the horizon.

I reckon it stems back to the Puritans. Hard work and efficiency sold as an expression of faith and morality.

Work ebbs and flows. In many roles, there is not a consistent flow. This does not necessarily mean that redundancies are on the horizon or the job is unsafe.

My role is really quiet several months per year. I am still in the job and have been for many years.

I am not going to sit in front of my laptop for nothing. I will run my business and make the most of my life doing things I enjoy.

@Yodeloo

I'm talking about the actual slackers. That know they should be working but don't.