to think some people think WFH should be a constant nose to the grindstone?

[Yodeloo]

I think some jobs are like that definitely. Heavy workload, helplines etc

Some people think all WFH should be like this and get horrified because someone hung some washing out or helped out a family member for a short time. Plenty of jobs have flexibility and it is about getting the job done not just being present in front of the computer non stop.

I get all my life admin done throughout the day around work. I do an exercise class most mornings and then start work later on the days I WFH. I will meet up with friends, work on my side business. Nobody cares at my work. All targets are met consistently.

Is it jealousy that people get so upset?

Some of us are old enough to remember the days when taking 20 minutes off every two hours for a 'fag break' was acceptable if you were a smoker. Apparently that was a golden age of dedication to your employer and staying on task. Don't make me laugh.

This approach doesn't always work for knowledge based tasks. Not every task can be measured and recorded particularly problem solving.

No, it doesn't suit all roles - it was a reply to PP describing it as "archaic", which it clearly isn't as it's widely used across many industries.

THIS. OP's story epitomises the unfairness of WFH and why companies are requesting a RTO. As for meeting targets and company not worried, my question is are you paid per job or for specific contracted hours?
In my workplace, there are groups of people who have to clock in and out (yes, in 2025) and others who WFH. Epitomises the great societal divide,
I know people who have given up paid childcare whilst wfh?????. looked after GC, visiting hairdressers and nailbars, gardening groups (as some examples), all whilst WFH. Says it all
As always, I am prepared to be shouted out on this

While I broadly agree with your stance OP, I don’t think it’s helpful to keep talking about running your “side business” during working hours. You’ve mentioned that your employer is fine about this but it would be in breach of many people’s employment contracts and could land them in big trouble. It’s really important to check that carefully.

This reminds me actually of some ridiculous person who posted an AMA last year claiming that they had two simultaneous full time jobs in marketing that they were able to do while WFH, and neither employer knew about the other. Running two laptops simultaneously etc.

I think I remember the person, on AMA. IIRC they were looking after a child aswell and were doing 2 "full time" jobs that each required 1 or 2 hours work per day

In my workplace, there are groups of people who have to clock in and out (yes, in 2025) and others who WFH. Epitomises the great societal divide

Are they fulfilling exactly the same roles? Because I could say the same for my workplace, but that's because different groups of people in my large organisation have different jobs.

If both groups are indeed doing exactly the same role then I would suggest that's a shit management issue, not a societal one.

Because other people could get in trouble, I shouldn't mention talking about running my side business? If it is in breach of someone's employment contract then they need to check and make the decision whether to take the risk.

It is not an issue for me. I hit all my targets consistently. If I wasn't then it would raise suspicion about how I spend my time. I would rather keep my employer happy by doing everything that needs to be done in the most efficient way and then focus on all the other things I can do for myself in working time.

Some companies may be requesting a RTO. My company no longer have the office space to accommodate everyone to RTO thank goodness!

Presumably you apply the same principle and post just as much criticism of jobs that pay more than others, or have better benefits such as pensions, maternity leave etc? Or more actually, since not everyone does want to work remotely whereas everyone likes more money.

Weird the way we don't seem to see as many threads saying what a great social divide it is that some people get great maternity pay and others SMP, some people get twice as much annual leave as others etc.

Interesting point. I appreciate that life is unfair and it seems that the unskilled/ manual workforce are disproportionately unfairly representative in your examples.
My point is that WFH enables some to take the P+++. IME, these posts typically represent middle and upper classes. I have also worked in a team where some WFH, my interaction with them compounded my assumptions. And these people were middle/upper management.
I'm fully aware that there are people who work productivally at home who don't misuse their freedom to do so. However, I have multiple examples and experiences of those who misuse the system

Of course they are not doing the same roles

You’ve basically repeated what I said. You didn’t caveat the initial mention of your “side business” with any reference to your circumstances being unusual. My point is that it’s not a great idea to normalise something when it is unusual in terms of most workplace norms.

Says it all.

The management are likely to be at it too

Right, so your point is irrelevant then, isn't it?

How is it a great societal divide? I earn just above MW, yet work WFH full time.

WFH enables some to take the P+++.
of course

but so does working in the office. Some people are king of doing bugger all but just showing their face. Some people are king of "sick leave"

Slackers will be slackers.

The majority is more efficient, it's pretty easy to check when you are managing them.

WFH should be the same as working in the office.

In some places you are glued to your desk between 9 and 6, in other roles you have a lot of flexibility.

I work with grown-ups, even when in the office people can disappear to the gym downstairs for 1 hour or 2 at some point during the day. They don't when they're busy, but most find it easier than squeezing it before or after work. They are not moaning because they are asked to do 5mn of overtime. There's not real concept of overtime for a few hours here and there anyway.

Again, it's professional adults, they can manage their requirements. Makes no difference when they are home.

The clock watchers who faint at the idea of working 45 seconds before their time, or 30seconds later, on the other hand...

There are people who use any workplace environment as a tool for taking the piss. I have multiple examples and experiences of those who misuse those systems when working in person. Sadly, management are not immune to this! If you've not noticed that, either you've been lucky or you're much better at detecting piss taking in some settings than others.

My point of view is never irrelevant, same as everyone else.
My POV epitomises the unfairness of the system. Some are exploited whilst others exploit!

Thank you. Id say you are likely to be the exception rather than norm

Do we need to caveat what we say on MN as to be careful not to normalise things?

I agree. In my experience, there has always been one or more individuals who do the bare minimum on a good day. Managing and motivating lazy people is a tireless task. There are also those who attempt to look busy when the boss is visible. The variety of the human race 😂

People who WFH aren't exploiting anyone, and people who have on-site clock in / clock out aren't all working-class heroes, either. Don't be bloody silly.