to think some people think WFH should be a constant nose to the grindstone?

[Yodeloo]

I think some jobs are like that definitely. Heavy workload, helplines etc

Some people think all WFH should be like this and get horrified because someone hung some washing out or helped out a family member for a short time. Plenty of jobs have flexibility and it is about getting the job done not just being present in front of the computer non stop.

I get all my life admin done throughout the day around work. I do an exercise class most mornings and then start work later on the days I WFH. I will meet up with friends, work on my side business. Nobody cares at my work. All targets are met consistently.

Is it jealousy that people get so upset?

I wasted far more time working in an office - chatting to colleagues, getting a coffee, the loo being far away, peoples birthdays and stopping to eat cakes, the Friday butty run, more chatting, more meetings, more distractions.

I get far more done wfh, at times that suit me. Productivity is well up in my industry since Covid and wfh.

And yes I start work approximately 7 minutes after waking up and am on the sofa within 30 seconds of finishing. I bloody love it.

@rwalker
Quite.
I worked for two years, never needed
to afterwards.
Very fortunate.
Can't stand WFH and am convinced it's shirking, like that teacher a PP suggested.

It's weird, isn't it. I haven't worked in an office for years, but I and others definitely used to 'waste' time (although I think of it as necessary breaks/decompression time) doing things like deliberately going to a loo miles away, ambling to the canteen, making a round of tea in leisurely fashion, standing in someone's office or in the kitchen shooting the breeze with colleagues for a bit, going on MN… Not to mention those people who smoke going out for however many cig breaks in a day.
'not-working' time definitely doesn't only exist when people are WFH.

I work from home full time, my contract is remote. When I was in an office, when we wanted a cuppa we had to go up three floors, queue for the kettle, refill it, wait for it to boil, wait for our tea to stew, put the teabag in the bin, go back to the lift, go back down three floors. At least ten minutes per cuppa, and we'd go at least 3 times a day.

At home the washer goes on before I start work. An hour in I go downstairs (30 seconds) flick the kettle on-no queue for it in my kitchen. Whilst it boils I empty the washer. I stick stuff on the clothes horse or sort it into piles for the line. Then I pour the hot water into my cup and put the clothes onto the line whilst my tea stews (or press 'go' on my robot vac) Teabag out of cuppa, back to my desk, gone approx 5 minutes (I timed it and when hanging washing out in the summer I was 7 minutes)

I finish at 5:30, but always finish the email I was working on. Sometimes also remember at 8pm that I wanted to message my colleague about her customer, so I nip upstairs and do it so she can read it in the morning.

We also have a whole colleague meeting for the last hour on a Friday. It's effectively a 'here's this weeks news' and we are meant to just sit and watch. I usually put a hair mask on during this, or dust my office room, or do my nails, none of which stop me from watching. Colleagues in the office will play with a fidget toy or have a beer from the office beer fridge whilst watching.

In the office, I used to get my 'steps' every hour, according to my fitbit. At home I get 4 hours of the 12 most days, because I barely stretch my legs. Need to be better at that, really.

My stats are far higher here than they were when I worked in the office. I've had two promotions since WFH due to increased productivity. Oh, and my disablity is vastly improved, too.

Its failure to understand jobs are different.

It’s exactly this. And possibly a big dose of jealousy too. It’s fine for people to not understand, but when they talk absolute rubbish and don’t listen to those who explain it to them, they’re really annoying, and best ignored.

You don't think that maybe there's massive variation in jobs, and your limited experience doesn't qualify you to understand what constitutes shirking in all of them, then?

I don’t wfh but do work in a role that ebs and flows. Some shifts I don’t get a break or a chance to have a drink. The last 2 nights I have had very little to do (very rare!) so have caught up on admin, read, had a nap and a gossip with my colleagues.

Even when I worked in an office environment, I wanted my team to be productive and that came with not be a dick about people having some down time. We are humans, not robots

We have a mandatory two days a week in the office. I find I'm more productive in the office and that the time spent chatting to colleagues is important to working well as a team. But I can't physically cope with travel so am glad to have the opportunity to work from home the other days.

The thing that I find objectionable is when people who work from home will happily (and rightfully) take time out to do errands or a gym class or whatever when there's downtime but will refuse to work an extra minute over their working hours when it's busier.

I work from home a lot, I read lots of threads like this and think most people don’t have a clue.
Even if I stop for a break like I would in the office, I still think about work and how I’m going to get round a problem or what i’m going to say in a meeting. I do exercise at lunch but so what, it’s my lunch break. Nobody ever had an opinion on what I should be doing in my lunch break in the office when I used to put my head phones in and go for a walk. Also, sometimes I call a colleague to just to chat and/or a rant or some advice.
So many things that are apparently ok to do if you’re in an office but not when it’s WFH 🤦🏼‍♀️. I swear people just make up rules even when it has nothing to do with them.

WFH should be like you would be in the office - no skiving and get on with the job as you’re paid to do. 🤷‍♀️🙄

Most employers want their staff to be working not going to the gym in office hours because colleagues and customers need them to be available. 100% flexible jobs are rare because most jobs have an element of outside input. I can work from home some days but people call and email, i need to promptly respond so going to the gym isn't appropriate.

I think there's a disconnect between what companies need from their employees and what employees think is acceptable hence employers wanting people back in the office, plus those random chats in the office can be useful to business, more so than the laundry, even if chatting to your colleagues isn't about work it's team building

I work all day in an admin job, the admin does not stop there is always something i should be doing

personally i think those people who think that everyone who works from home do not work hard, would struggle to work from home themslves as they know they would skive 🤷🏻

i am happy to agree that some people who work from home take the piss…and that some people who work in the office take the piss

If the work is being completed in a timely fashion and the boss is happy I don't see why anyone would care. Unless they were jealous.
It's true to say a shift from home would include certain perks like doing short errands and being near your family and your amenities, whereas the same job from an office, you'd probably just have to stay at the desk as the boss would be looking at your movements.
And if you needed to leave the building for a few minutes it would class as a break.
So I can see why someone might think it's preferable, and then consequently 'easier' to WFH.

Yes I work hybrid now (used to be full time wfh) and I get really nervous about my teams going to amber - I dash to the loo and back in case people think I'm slacking, it's ridiculous really.

My dh says he works harder at home as there's no water cooler moments with work colleagues etc, he will take a break to make a cuppa then go straight back to it rather than have a 10 minute chat with someone that would normally occur with work friends.

I love WFH. Probably more productive but not ‘nose to the grindstone’ for every second. I put a wash on when making a cuppa and empty and peg out on lunch. All my little household stuff gets done and all in the safe knowledge that I haven’t got a 60 minute, each way, commute. Work isn’t far, but it’s fiddly and the traffic can be daft. When in the office I make a cup or tea or go to help out a colleague and not static in front of my screens.
I am looking for a solely WFH job and not have to commute in 2 days a week because I love it so much.

Can't remember ever working in an office where someone was pegging out the laundry, doing all their life admin, prepping their evening meal, looking after their toddler and all whilst doing a side hustle. Doesn't exactly equate to a 10 minute chat with a colleague in the tea room.

Same with mine tag

he does pop out during the day or on his way to a meeting on occasion but he starts work at 8 and finishes at 6 or later so he is certainly doing the hours

And he’ll pop a wash in when making his tea 😀 and take deliveries

My mum is one of them. She regularly collects my DD from school to take her home to hers - and occasionally drops in to mine to pick something up. If I have the audacity to be making a cup of tea when she comes by without fail I get 'oh are you off work today'🙄 Or her partner was ranting last week about working aged men on bikes at 2pm in the afternoon when they should probably be WFH. Doesn't occur to him that they could have a day off or just taking a break. It's ridiculous.

Yes op ! I think it’s jealousy

i just work whatever hours i want really once i get my job done ! Some weeks I work more than others! Sometimes I take the afternoon off and work that night instead. Some days I have a lie in.

some days I start work at 6am

i couldn’t go back to working another way tbh

This just sounds like a load of rules you have made up. Do you not think that people who WFH are not performance managed, that we don't get objectives, that we don't have managers and 121s etc.. Do you not think we have friends at work who we chat to and do "team building" as you call it? And whilst you say all these companies are going back to the office Mumsnet seems to be full of people who are still working from home including me. Even if I went in to the office, my line manager is based 200 miles away so she's not going to be sat next to me wherever I'm working unless its a day we meet in one of four offices.
And you know what just, I probably have a much wider and more diverse network of colleagues at the 250ftse company I work for because we are spread out we are forced to call each other, some of my now closest friends are based all over the country.

I’ve got to admit when my pals tell me how bored they are are how they done the skirting boards today and the next series they plan on watching.. whilst my blood pressure is through the roof.. I do get a little green eyed. I know this is not how the majority wfh. Infact I’m not even sure I believe them?
there’s also a lot of long lunches and skiving that happens in the office too though..
I am all for flexibility, I think the best of both is the answer

But that is poor management which can happen in and out of the office. Chances are these people also aren't pushed in the office because they have poor reporting lines with managers not passing work on - that happened to me once and it was a really difficult time in my working life.

Whether working at home or in the office, people are entitled to breaks. I could go to the gym at lunchtime in either location and as I don’t get paid for the lunch break, it’s not on company time.

People are also entitled to rest breaks during the day, especially taking screen breaks. Putting on the laundry while making a cup of tea isn’t that different to staring out the window or reading random posters while making a cup of tea in the office.

And in many jobs, it’s acceptable to take half hour to pop out during the day because the working time will be more than made up by an early start or late finish, a call with a different region for example.

So people could skive if they were so inclined, but they could just be using their breaks and working times wisely.