Refusing sleepovers *childhood abuse warning

[WishingIcouldbenormal]

Hi

I need some support with this and I'm not particularly sure where to put this thread.

This may be long, but not to drip feed. I have changed username for this because I don't feel comfortable posting under my normal name.

I have a 12 DD who will be turning 13 later this year.

She has recently asked to go to a close school friends sleepover with another friend. Initially I had said yes after much inner thoughts and turmoil. But then yesterday I told her no. The friends mother had texted me yesterday giving details of the plan. After 3 hours of constant debate with myself I then told my DD and the friends mum no to the sleepover, but she's fine to do the movie part. Then she can meet back up with her friends the next day to go into town. I know it sounds a bit half ass but please bear with me. My DD thinks I'm mean and I'm making her miss out. She thinks that I don't trust her, I've explained to her that I do trust her, it's others around her I have an issue with. I have said to her that once she's older then I can ease up. So far I have kept to my word on other rules I have in place for my children and their ages to access or do things.

I have always had a no sleepover policy, but have hosted sleepovers at our house. I know I sound contradicting, but I will explain why. I won't go into everything but a quick breakdown.

• My sister was abused by our "father" from the ages of 15-17. This only stopped because I confronted the situation and it was revealed.

The impact of this has meant that I have an adult sister who battles psychosis caused by cannabis to block out the trauma. I have seen first hand what child hood abuse can do to a person. It doesn't stop just because the age changed.

-At the time of confrontation this changed the way I parented my three children. I became very aware of others and hypervilgant. I am becoming more better now.

The impact meant that I refused to send my daughters to nursery until they could speak quite clearly. We are quite sheltered in our lives and I don't send them to others homes- unless they are certain members of my family. I am learning to be less strict about the fashion sense that tween and teen girls like to wear.

I've recently allowed my DD to spend time at the friend's in question house in the day,during the weekend and then she's back home again. This took a long time for me to even do a simple thing like that. I'm very aware that abuse can happen anytime, not just during sleepovers. I wish to God I could be more logical and less scared.

Logically, I know deep down sleepovers are fun and meant to be normal. But for every 5 nice stories I've read during my inner turmoil. There were at least 5 more warning about the realities of abuse.

I am aware that this friend in question lives with both her parents and I think that's why I'm slightly more hesitant. Admittedly I don't believe every male is like that- I have an adult son and plenty of respectable male relatives. But my father was seen as respectable and a decent person. But he was the devil himself. I don't believe every male/ female is like that. But why put the risk there.

I want to be a "normal" parent- who doesn't see everything through the eyes of potential abuse and I don't believe that everybody is like that. But unfortunately too many times there is a demon who reminds me that evil does exist.

I have never told my DD's the reality of our estranged "father" as I think children should be as innocent, as they can. They don't need to be exposed to the harsh side of life.

Even if it's not sa, I'm mindful of parent dynamics, as there was a case years ago of the little child who was killed at a sleepover by the friends mother ex partner.

Given time I know that one day I will have to allow that moment of a sleepover to happen, but I'm very worried that the one day or instance can change our whole lives.

I just want to feel less threatened as a parent and not push my adult eyes onto my children.

I am currently at work, but this is having such an impact on me at the moment, so will not be able to respond to any replies (if any) until later.

Thank you if you've read so far.

Sorry but you're being so so unfair. It's awful that you have experienced abuse but it's unfair to project that on your DD.

I think you need therapy, really, that's what I'd recommend.

OP I don't know what you want from us, I'm sorry you've been through all you've been through. I can totally see why it would make parenting your own children difficult too.

But I think you know that this is coming from trauma and not from reason. You can't raise your children to fear everyone. So you make sure they can contact you if they're uncomfortable and you make sure they know where the boundaries are in terms of interaction with others, and then you trust that they have the skills they need should the worst case scenario come about. Gut feelings of wrongness are enough and you'll come and collect. That's all you can do, there's no real difference in DD going at 12 or at 15 in terms of safety, so what are you waiting for?

How old would she need to be before you'd feel comfortable?

What the first poster said

I'm very sorry for your experience op

But don't project it onto your DD

You need to look at this in a different way.

Your DD going to sleepovers is good for her growth and development. You can handle this your end by keeping open lines of communication, talking to her about boundaries and being able to say no. You can give her a phone for if anything goes wrong.

It's time to accept that awful, evil things happen sometimes, and the best way to prepare your child for the world is by talking to her openly (probably not about your experiences) about dangers and advocating for herself/keeping herself safe. If you keep saying 'no', she will likely get to an age where she has freedom and be completely naive to any threats, and potentially experience bad things because she's not learnt these things now. Or (almost) worse - she'll learn from you to spend her life afraid, and another generation will be effected by the abuse that happened to your sister. You have power here to stop the effects and fear from reaching her.

I understand what’s driving your dear but you are being incredibly unfair to your daughter.

Given your experiences I completely understand the line you are taking.

My dh weren't allowed sleepovers until secondary school. Any younger is just free childcare imo!
Didn't stop dc being abused by a family member in broad daylight ...
Yabu op. Make sure dd has a phone and a code word /message if she wants picked up.
Or at 16 she will be leaving home and nothing you can do about that.

I'm so sorry this happened. Have you and your sister been able to get any therapy?

Because I think that's the essential next step for both your wellbeing, and so would have a beneficial effect on your daughter's, too.

For what it's worth, I agree - I'd say no sleepovers, too. A family rule that you stick to consistently. No debate.

Predators hide in plain sight.

My SIL will not let her DD’s sleep out for the same reason, her reason is you just do not know who else might be in the home, an older brother, a visitor and it’s a lot of trust on the parent you are sending them to if you do not really know them that well.

Not trusting others you don’t know with your most precious child is very hard. I would suggest building up a solid friendship of trust with the other parent so you do feel more ok about possibly letting her sleep over. My DD’s go on overnight school trips as teenagers and that’s a big thing to miss out on. Also encourage your child to feel comfortable to talk to you if they do need to. You do need to prepare them for adulthood and being resilient in how to deal with situations when you are not with them as you will not always be there as they get older

To be honest I wouldn’t send my child to someone else’s house if I didn’t know the other adult very well, and all the other people who also lived there otherwise it would be sending my child to a strangers house

I’m so sorry for what you have been through and I hope you are getting the help you need to work through it, if not then please do seek help. Sending you big hugs.

Please do reconsider the rules you have in place especially for secondary school age children. It’s perfectly normal for them to be spending time with friends have having sleepovers.

I know you think you are protecting them but in the long run this could work against you when your children become an age where they can leave home and not talk to you again. Explain to them about safety and if they feel uncomfortable then 1 call or message and you can pick them up. Don’t push them away as they will be come secretive and won’t talk to you if they need you.

This has happened in my (extended) family too, so I understand where you are coming from. Don’t pay any mind to the glib responses from posters who simply say you are projecting, need therapy, etc.

My children are still very little so I don’t know - and sorry if it’s totally inappropriate - but I just want to put out there the idea of talking to your daughter about what happened to your sister. If she’s educated, she’s far less likely to become a victim herself.

As a childhood sexual abuse victim OP, I'm also going to say gently that you're being too strict IMHO. Statistics on abuse show that >70% of abuse cases are by close family or family friends, and the majority of the rest are down to online grooming. I didn't allow sleepovers in primary because of my children's nervousness, but secondary is a different kettle of fish altogether

You've been through a terrible ordeal but you are being unreasonable. Your DD is almost 13 and sleepovers are very normal at that age.
She'll be with 2 other girls and can contact you if she feels at all uncomfortable.
As you know very well CSA usually happens by a family member so stopping your DD going on sleepovers is illogical.
I have 2 DDs so I know how it feels to want to protect them from the world, but stopping them doing normal things isn't the way.

Oh @WishingIcouldbenormal I'm so sorry to hear the experiences within your family - it's completely normal to feel anxious about letting your child sleep at someone else's house even if you haven't been through that, so I do understand where you're coming from.
I didn't ever have sleepovers, DS didn't really either, it's not essential to a happy childhood. Ignore those who think you're being unreasonable - they're probably very naive to the amount of abuse which actually occurs or think it'll never happen to them. 💐

What are the circumstances of a sleepover that particularly worry you, if you're okay with her being at the house during the day? If you've talked to her about what is inappropriate behaviour by another adult, so she's switched on to anything that could be "grooming" behaviour, then is it fear of a sudden violent incident without other people being awake in the house to intervene? Because surely she'll be sleeping in a room with the other girls and could say no, stop, shout for help, etc. I understand you've got fears based on your family circumstances but in reality what is the difference between her being at this family's house at 5pm in the afternoon or 10pm at night.

I'm really sorry this happened to your sister, and for the impact it's had on you both.

It's ok to have a family rule about this. Families have all sorts of rules round everything from hygiene, veganism, religious rites to trick or treating, belly button piercing or trampolining. It's all fine. And so is having a rule about no sleepovers outside the family home until the age of X.

I know there is real trauma behind your reasoning, and I hope you won't read this as me trying to trivialise it in any way, but you don't need to convince your daughter (or us) that you are justified. You just need to say it's family rule we have. She might not like it, but she will be fine.

You actually think that child abuse victims just have to say no or shout for help?

I agree with previous posters who've suggested therapy. If you don't process your past it is quite likely to come out in other ways that will affect your children.

A personal example, my mother was emotionally neglected by her own mother. My mum never processed that and went over the top in trying to be present and involved in every part of my life. It was suffocating and not what I needed or wanted and my mother never listened when I told her that as she was still trying to fix herself through me. She didn't see me at all and we are now low contract and have a strained relationship...

I think perhaps at 13 you could tell your daughter (in an age appropriate manner) why you are reluctant. You don't have to say it's your sister, you could say it was a childhood friend or similar, this will help her to u dear and the reluctance and also help her to understand the need for vigilance and that she can call you if she feels at all uncomfortable.....but at 13 I think you need to let her go.

I think sleepovers shouldn’t happen. May be against the grain but in Indian culture it is not normal for sleepovers. Abuse is rife.

Get some therapy, stop projecting onto your poor DD and let her fully enjoy her teenage years. Sleepovers were a massive part of DD’s social life at that age, she + her friends absolutely adored them and always had a lot of fun. To deprive her of that and single her as the odd one out is just cruel, plus it’s asking for friendship trouble. It wouldn’t surprise me if her friends simply stopped inviting her out to places/activities because of this

At 13 your DD knows what’s appropriate and what isn’t. She has a voice and a phone that she can use if she ever feels uncomfortable. My policy was that DD could text/ring me at any time and I’d come and get her, no questions asked.

The way i see it, our job is to protect our children, whilst balancing this against allowing them to grow up in healthy environment and giving them the tools they need.

I disagree entirely about preserving innocence. From toddler age I have talked to my girls at a high level about not all people being good and to talk to me if they are worried or the get a funny feeling or an adult asks them to keep a secret that makes them feel bad. I've also highlighted that if they are concerned about something they don't feel able to talk to us about then they can talk to a teacher.

Its all about educating them so the aren't out there with no clue and, should the worst happen, immediately blame themselves and worry about upsetting their mum.

Before a sleepover I'd absolutely be talking about how to manage a situation if they feel uncomfortable or scared.

I'm not being flippant or trying to scare you but it's easy to think a predator is in a private home but they can easily be groomed in public.

At their age, I think they have a voice and that's their best defence, not you being so overprotective because of your experience and controlling your fear through controlling their lives disproportionately.

At the age she is it is about equipping her with her own eyes and opinions and instincts - because no matter how we would hope it isn’t so she is going to come up against men whose methods and motives are unpleasant becuase she is older now

otherwise keeping her wrapped in cotton wool is going to actually make it more likely

let her go- otherwise she will I suspect start doing it anyway

While of course being very careful to respect her sister's privacy. All too easy to talk in vague terms about a "family member" and think you're being discreet when actually sharing far too much that OP's sister might not have consented to her niece knowing.