Refusing sleepovers *childhood abuse warning

[WishingIcouldbenormal]

Hi

I need some support with this and I'm not particularly sure where to put this thread.

This may be long, but not to drip feed. I have changed username for this because I don't feel comfortable posting under my normal name.

I have a 12 DD who will be turning 13 later this year.

She has recently asked to go to a close school friends sleepover with another friend. Initially I had said yes after much inner thoughts and turmoil. But then yesterday I told her no. The friends mother had texted me yesterday giving details of the plan. After 3 hours of constant debate with myself I then told my DD and the friends mum no to the sleepover, but she's fine to do the movie part. Then she can meet back up with her friends the next day to go into town. I know it sounds a bit half ass but please bear with me. My DD thinks I'm mean and I'm making her miss out. She thinks that I don't trust her, I've explained to her that I do trust her, it's others around her I have an issue with. I have said to her that once she's older then I can ease up. So far I have kept to my word on other rules I have in place for my children and their ages to access or do things.

I have always had a no sleepover policy, but have hosted sleepovers at our house. I know I sound contradicting, but I will explain why. I won't go into everything but a quick breakdown.

• My sister was abused by our "father" from the ages of 15-17. This only stopped because I confronted the situation and it was revealed.

The impact of this has meant that I have an adult sister who battles psychosis caused by cannabis to block out the trauma. I have seen first hand what child hood abuse can do to a person. It doesn't stop just because the age changed.

-At the time of confrontation this changed the way I parented my three children. I became very aware of others and hypervilgant. I am becoming more better now.

The impact meant that I refused to send my daughters to nursery until they could speak quite clearly. We are quite sheltered in our lives and I don't send them to others homes- unless they are certain members of my family. I am learning to be less strict about the fashion sense that tween and teen girls like to wear.

I've recently allowed my DD to spend time at the friend's in question house in the day,during the weekend and then she's back home again. This took a long time for me to even do a simple thing like that. I'm very aware that abuse can happen anytime, not just during sleepovers. I wish to God I could be more logical and less scared.

Logically, I know deep down sleepovers are fun and meant to be normal. But for every 5 nice stories I've read during my inner turmoil. There were at least 5 more warning about the realities of abuse.

I am aware that this friend in question lives with both her parents and I think that's why I'm slightly more hesitant. Admittedly I don't believe every male is like that- I have an adult son and plenty of respectable male relatives. But my father was seen as respectable and a decent person. But he was the devil himself. I don't believe every male/ female is like that. But why put the risk there.

I want to be a "normal" parent- who doesn't see everything through the eyes of potential abuse and I don't believe that everybody is like that. But unfortunately too many times there is a demon who reminds me that evil does exist.

I have never told my DD's the reality of our estranged "father" as I think children should be as innocent, as they can. They don't need to be exposed to the harsh side of life.

Even if it's not sa, I'm mindful of parent dynamics, as there was a case years ago of the little child who was killed at a sleepover by the friends mother ex partner.

Given time I know that one day I will have to allow that moment of a sleepover to happen, but I'm very worried that the one day or instance can change our whole lives.

I just want to feel less threatened as a parent and not push my adult eyes onto my children.

I am currently at work, but this is having such an impact on me at the moment, so will not be able to respond to any replies (if any) until later.

Thank you if you've read so far.

And also just to say op, you're not alone. I also wouldn't be allowing sleepovers unless I knew both parents well.

I'm a survivor of CSA, it took place in the family home.
Even I wouldn't deny my child the joy of a cub scouts camping weekend or sleepover at a friend's house.

Child sex abusers don't target friend's children during a sleepover. They are far more sophisticated than that.
You have anxiety over what happened which is understandable but you need to be realistic.

You are projecting your fears onto your daughter and your daughter will end up trusting nobody, it's very unfair of you to stop sleepovers at this age especially when she is old enough to tell you.

Your own daughter will end up needing help because of your fears it needs to stop and you need help.

Watch out. You are being overly cautious and your actions may lead to your daughter becoming secretive about what she is up to. In turn this may lead to her not being able to speak to you about the very things you are trying to protect her from.

You need to seek some help to process your past.

I am sorry for what happened in your life. We have to let them go (gradually). There will always be something to worry about (sleepovers, parties, parties where the house has a swimming pool, nightclubbing, driving, moving out etc.). What I have learned is that the first few times your child does something new independently, it is really hard. But gradually it gets easier as you get used to it.

I think of it this way; your brain has been 'hot wired' because of your past (bad) experiences therefore it immediately goes to this bad scenario that has happened to you. What you describe has never occurred to me, for instance, because it has not happened to me, or anyone close to me. But other things would worry me. We have to be brave for the sake of our children. Mine have aways been very good at understanding that I can be a bit or a worrier and they are good at keeping in touch. I would try and break this down into a scenario that you could at least try (i.e. ask daughter to text you updates, maybe confide in your friends mum or dad about your worries and ask them to text you updates). You can do this.

My best friend was never allowed to go on school coach trips because of something that had happened, or that her mum had heard about. Nothing ever went wrong on our school coach trips. My friend had other things that happened in her life that did warrant some worry (things that she has overcome) but coach trips were not worth worrying about and my friend has always felt sad that she missed out on them.

I'm very sorry that your sister was sexually abused, but hiding your daughters away from the world is going to do nothing to help them prepare for their imminent adult lives.
It's unfair - really unfair - to project your trauma onto your daughters like this.
They'll come to hate you for it in time, if you're not careful.

I have said YANBU as I have always had the no sleepover rule for similar reasons. My parents were very open about abuse with myself and my siblings from an early age, we know to always be vigilant and have been the same with our children. I don’t like my own mother but she’s one of the few people I would have trusted to babysit. For these reasons DH and I have had a very limited social life as we don’t leave our DDs with just anyone.

Yes I see predators around every corner and I don’t see that as a bad thing but a reality that I need to watch out for.

However, I think at 12 you need to give your dd some freedom. At some point you need to loosen the reins. She’s old enough to know your reasons ( you don’t have to be detailed especially about your DSis) but arming her with the knowledge of predators, what to look out for, always trust her instincts, no one is allowed to touch her without permission and so on

All my DDs know how to speak up, they know what’s right and wrong, they know that no one should ever touch them that secrets are not kept from me EVER, they know what sexual, emotional and physical abuse is. My oldest is 12 and I allowed her first sleepover at 10yo as I knew she knows the signs and knew she’d contact me is ever anything ever felt slightly off.

Are you planning to remove your adult son and all male relatives including the father from unsupervised contact? They are by far the biggest risk.

I'm sorry for what you have been through. Obviously you are being overly cautious with the no-sleep overs thing. However you are not doing the right thing for your daughter. You need to let go of your fears and let her go and have a normal childhood with her friends.

I have said no sleepovers to mine but that stopped at teen. At going on for 13, you should have taught her boundaries and self worth and the ability to speak up for herself. You can’t prevent her from being hurt in every scenario, you can however, arm her with how to deal with situations when she is uncomfortable. Because with abuse it is usually a lead up, grooming or threats.

Once mine were old enough and I felt they understood dangers and what to do with those dangers (we have code words for text messages and calls for example), then I let them go.

Disxlaimer here, I was abused, significantly. By multiple people for most of my childhood including sexual exploitation. I teach my children, I do not try to control every situation because that’s not caring or keeping them safe, that’s keeping them in prison.

I know where you are coming from, OP. I was one of those children who was SA by a friend's father during sleepovers. But a massive part of that was my own upbringing. I was taught to do as I was told. Be good. Be kind. Be nice. Never argue. If an adult told me to do something I had to do it. And sex was only ever discussed in a shameful way. Really I was vulnerable to being prayed on from the start, and so when that happened, not only did I think I couldn't fight or say no, I knew I couldn't turn to her because I was ashamed and thought she would blame me. So, my point is, give your daughter the confidence and skills to know what is right and wrong, that she can say no, and that she can always come to you. Then let her live her life. Holding her back won't protect her.

It's not unreasonable and I know of parents with similar rules. Tbh sleepovers do have risks if there is an adult male in the house.

You stick to your rules

By 12 is unfortunately probably the most dangerous point. There are a lot more men interested in girls of this age than younger children. So you are not unreasonable

I think it's your choice, and I was the same about nursery. I do think you need to start talking to your daughter about the risks. She needs to know what they are so that she can protect herself.

I also have the Tell Two rule. You tell 2 people if something happens to you. Because the first person you tell may have an interest in keeping it quiet.

I also have a question they can ask me, via text/phone that sounds normal to people listening but alerts me to a problem. So there's a way they can ask for help without others knowing.

Thank you all so much for your responses. I'm truly grateful. I've just left work and commuting home, so able to dip in and out.

I came on here as talking to family will only bring the same paranoid view and lm trying to be logical and less over protective.

To clarify I wasn't abused- it was my sister. We've both had therapy, but it hasn't changed the reality.

I don't want to project on to my DD and I'm fully aware that it can be unfair on her. I don't want to overanalyse everybody and every situation. But if you think it's bad to read, imagine having to be me.

To be fair. I have allowed both my DDs to go on school residential trips and my DS went abroad with school when he was younger. I am trying my best to be as normal as I possibly can.

But for example despite the fact that I know that not every plane will crash, I'm still mindful. Does that ever prevent us from flying- no.

I wished this was a normal fixable fear. But unfortunately it isn't- not for me anyhow.

Also to give a slight background into my "father" and what has prompted this level of paranoia.

My mum wasn't able to look after for a time. So my father and step mother took over. To me he was a hero who rescued us. So for the trust to be violated in that type of way was beyond hurtful. As we never expected it.

Also just to touch base this situation between my "father" and sister happened many years ago in June 2009- in July 2009- my cousin was murdered. So unfortunately we never truly dealt with the first trauma as we was now expected to deal with another trauma.

It's only now my DD's are growing up and I'm being forced to relieve a fear, that I thought I was managing for all these years.

Edited - for spelling mistake.

I also think counselling would help you to understand how you want your experience to impact your parenting and your daughter’s life. I was abused and went through a v hyper vigilant phase when a family member’s behaviour around my child felt wrong. Everyone loves him but I see something different and don’t let him near my kids. I do allow sleepovers as there is no grooming going on. If a family were extra keen to spend time with my child or something felt off no way a sleepover. The odd sleepover fine, let them enjoy themselves. Being hyper vigilant is exhausting, please get help and use your experience to your advantage not detriment x

Finally reached home and now able to charge my phone!

Thank you all so much for your responses. It has been interesting to see different points of view.

To clarify I have spoken to all of my children about dangers and code words. They're very aware. I try to keep things as light and innocent as I can for my children without going into dangers of every person. But now here I am and this fear has unlocked itself.

It was drummed into us as children by our paranoid mother who experienced a trauma herself at 13. There are four of us- all girls and this happened to our younger sister. But to be fair when our mother could no longer look after us- my sister was about 6 years old and so she didn't have the paranoid awareness training that my sisters and I had. Therefore she was more susceptible to the abuse- as my "father" had groomed her from the age of 12. So when the abuse then inevitably happened at 15. She was very vulnerable.

I know I have to eventually get past this- but I just need to know how and feel ok letting my children go.

I am sorry for traumatizing anyone.

Sorry but you’re being really unfair to your child. Your sister was abused by her own family. No sleepovers would not have prevented this. I was abused as a child. Also by a member of my family. I allow my kids to have sleepovers because my rational brain knows firstly it’s unlikely and secondly it’s more likely to happen by someone close to you. Like a family member.
You’re going to end up damaging your relationship with your daughter. Just let her be normal

You are being cruel to your daughter. Whilst I don’t doubt you think you are doing your best, it’s your insecurity because of what happened to your sister.

The majority of people are not like your father, they have normal relationships with their kids, and you are denying your child the opportunity to grow and develop and experience things based on what happened to your sister via your father.

I would suggest more counselling to help you overcome your fears and allow your child a better childhood

Thank you for your responses. I can't personally reply to every single post. But im hoping my updates touch a few points raised. However I'm in tears and I wished to God I could be normal.

Sleepovers should be planning pajamas and things to bring. But for me this has been a deep source of fear for the past two days.

I know logically why is the fear not there all the time, as she has been there in the day. But there's something about being vulnerable during the night- that I'm fighting.

I know realistically that paedophiles don't only attack at night. They have no cut off point. Things can happen in plain sight and surrounded by others. My sister's abuse happened at times, when we were all in the same house, visiting on Christmas day. I think this is an aspect- that is triggering my fear.

During therapy I've made it clear that we are estranged from our dad. However the reality is there are disclaimers that I had to initially sign in case there was any safeguarding issues- that may need to be reported.

It took me until I was halfway into my sessions to finally reveal the truth about my ''father". As I was very aware that it would trigger something inside of me and I didn't want people to assume that we were a still in contact with him or his family- thus potentially putting my own children at risk.

His actions were over in 2009- that is nearly 16 years ago and yet the ramifications of that are still being dealt with to this day.

I think this is a shame but I can see why you’ve come to this. Your DSis being abused.

I do allow sleepovers, I trust (as much as you can) the mums & Dads and I don’t want my DD to miss out.

I get you though, I have an anxiety about my DD being driven by others (my mum crashed an ice cream van with me in it as a kid!) I just spend the whole time fretting but I still let her.

Thank you all so much. I realize I'm parenting from a place of fear and having to ask a hard question, of when will I feel comfortable.

I have made a note to refer myself back to therapy, as this needs to be dealt with and I can't continue to live like this.

Reading all these responses especially from posters who have also experienced abuse- I'm so sorry for your trauma. However it has been very insightful to see that you haven't allowed that trauma to impact on your children and instead have used it as a tool to educate your children. This is the point I would like to be able to get to and in time I'm very hopeful that I can and will.

I can totally understand where you're coming from. However from my (admittedly limited) understanding of CAR, its much more likely to occur through a trusted family friend or family / extended family who have regular contact with the child, with opportunity to gain trust / groom etc and will then often abuse 'in plain sight'. Rather than from occasional sleepovera with friends. So in reality you're likely just stopping her from having sleepovers, rather than actively preventing anything more sinister happening.

I actually think you'd be much better off teaching your daughter about how to keep herself safe and what to do when an adult makes her feel uncomfortable or asks her to do something she doesn't like. This includes teaching about personal boundaries/things adults shouldn't do.

That would prepare her much better to deal with any dodgy situation that could arise rather than keeping her naive to the dangers some adults pose, and limiting her freedoms.

There must be some advice online about how to discuss such things in an age appropriate way.

I'm not saying you should send her to sleepovers, just that it's probably more helpful to ensure she knows what to do when someone acts inappropriately rather than try and keep her unaware that there are unpleasant people out there.