If you’re married to a surgeon please tell me if you think I’m being unfair?

[Likao]

I am 40 and we have 1 dc age 2. I do everything for dd in terms of nursery runs, packing bags, ensuring dd has new shoes that fit, taking her to appointments etc. Any admin you can think of, I do.

i also work full time from home, so I have flexibility which is why I do nursery etc. At weekends DP will take dd out from 10ish to 4pm ish on a Saturday or Sunday so I can have a break. I don’t think this is ok or enough and I’m starting to get really pissed off that everything is left to me.

if I ask DP to do a specific task like put a wash on or pick up some food then he will. But what infuriates me is there is NEVER a sense of urgency from him to be home at a reasonable time and he would absolutely never ensure he was there to collect dd from nursery for example. I have to cut my data short often to collect her if unwell but he literally does not think he can do this because he can’t just leave patients (in his words). Obviously I know that there is a difference with his job but I am absolutely at the end of my tether tonight and very upset he’s been at work since 6am and not even asked how I’ve got on with dd and her bedtime (she’s very difficult at the moment). It’s making me very unhappy and feel very alone. It’s caused loads of arguments the last few weeks as I feel totally put upon. I don’t feel I have an equal relationship and the only answer I get back is that his job means he can’t do more. I’m sick of it all, should I expect more, is it fair?

But it sounds like he's doing nothing at home the other 6 days of the week, while the OP juggles work and everything else, so he has plenty of breaks then.

I know he's saving lives and the OP WFH but that doesn't mean that only his job is stressful or needs downtime from.

6 hours (in a row) a week childfree on a non work day is absolutely loads at this stage of life and more than many people get, yes. Does he get it?

Surely it’s a bit rude to label OP’s work as “unmeaningful”? It’s not as if she is lazing around at home unemployed and watching tv all day. Regardless of OP’s question, it’s a little mean!

@Likao What you're describing is what a lot of mums experience when they have a high-flying partner. They don't have to be surgeons.
I experienced pretty much all you did - DH was a snr manager in a large international company.

Not only was he out from 7.45am-7pm, he was often flying overseas and away for up to 2 weeks (long haul like the US etc.) His travelling often started on a Sunday or he'd arrive back in the UK on a Saturday.

I was only working part time. but I still did 90% of everything. I had 2 DCs, with a 2 year age gap.

I think you're being unreasonable.

Your husband (partner?- you refer to both) has a demanding job.
He gives up most of his weekends so you have some time.

What else do you expect from him?

I'm not saying he shouldn't engage with you and ask how you are. He can give some emotional input.
But maybe you underestimate his responsibilities of working with life and death day in day out.

If you're both on good incomes why not employ a nanny to help you with nursery pickups etc?

6 solid hours in a block is decent imo. How many hours does your husband get to himself when he's not working?

I do appreciate it's hard for you carrying mental load and doing all pick ups drop offs bath and bedtime though.

I'm a corporate lawyer and my husband is in leadership team at a school so we both have very hectic lives but neither of us get anything like 6 hours in a block to ourselves every week.

Are we having a Doctor off? 😭

He's been saving lives all day. He's not 'at home' 6 days a week- he's working!
Can you imagine the emotional toll of that?
Seriously, what do you expect him to do when he comes home? Their child is only 2 so she will be in bed by the time he comes home I assume.

I know another couple under 40 - one a CEO who works 24/7 , his wife with a very snr role in a company.

They have 2 children under 5.
They have a nanny and a cleaner.

Can't you think about help OP?

Being a doctors wife is tough but I don’t see how they can change it? Can’t put a cancer patient on hold or an acute emergency op? Surgery is a tough profession to be in, for the partner doing it and for the partner at home, add a little one in to the mix and it becomes high stress for a while. You grow into the role, you’re the senior domestic engineer in addition to your own work. I had a few very supportive friends and relatives and I needed them. If there are other medical wives it helps. It is really tough, I was post natally depressed with one of mine which made it tough but I had a fantastic health visitor who really saw me and got me out and about with little one even helping me find a dance class with a crèche, amazing woman, I’ll never forget her. So kind.

So get out and about is what I’d say, surround your self with friends and interests. It’s not that he won’t support you it’s that he can’t. His work simply takes all his concentration if he’s to be a decent surgeon. I hope he spares you a thought from time to time. Working from home with an infant is tough too and an absolutely vital role. If you can find a church play group it can be great as there is play for them and companionship for you. Mine had a great coffee shop to so it was perfect. As baby grows it gets easier believe me. Pull on every source of support you can think of when it’s rough, outsource what you can when the babies are small so you’re not exhausted. Maybe you could communicate to him when you feel calm that your finding things very full on and the emotional support would be appreciated. But use your own health carers for all other health support though, you need and require your own health team. Counselling the same. Doctors are not always good at seeing that their own need help. You look after you kind of thing. You survive it and if you have the right one you’ll get through, early career for surgeons as you know is tough, very harsh rotations and on calls as I’ve said just make sure you have your own support network it does get easier though as the children grow. I wish you luck with it, keep your chin up and look outward. Have a good weekend and good luck.

I have worked with a lot of surgeons (male and female) I think your husband is entirely wedded to the unique work culture. I suspect he has worked very hard to get where he is and domesticity has never featured in his life. He will probably be working stupid hours (depending on the type of surgery he does) in a culture where there are a lot of driven people doing the same. Has he always had someone at home that enables him to have complete focus on his studies/work? He just doesn't see it.
He really doesn't see that running a house and being parents requires a lot of team work. Sorry to be blunt but I don't think he's going to change. You either have to accept it, leave or buy in help. The surgeons I have known have a particularly high divorce rate.
Strangely female surgeons (like the PP above) get on with it all but they are absolutely amazing superhumans. A lot chose to be single. Good luck.

Could you afford to hire a part time housekeeper/laundry service/cleaner etc etc?

He looks after the child solo for 6 hours a week (probably a large percentage of his time off work) and could be doing more cleaning in that time if he was allowed to be at home. I don't think he's doing an unreasonable amount and the balance of labour seems pretty fair - in fact it seems like the OP gets more downtime than he does which is the key measure in this sort of scenario imho.

Your life sounds almost identical to mine. It's actually slightly comforting to know that seems like the norm of being married to a surgeon. I'm also self-employed with the potential to earn a lot (which I have in the past) but it's become increasingly impossible to work because I'm tied up with childcare every day of the week and do 100% of the time off when DD is ill.

Doctors do differ between their attitudes but the vast majority are married to their work. They CAN cut down hours or stop surgeries if they wanted to but most of them obviously won't. It's rare enough to be married to a surgeon, and you'd have to be in the 0.1% of that population to get one who is also willing to pull their weight at home. It's unicorn statistics and simply unrealistic on every level. Most other surgeon/doctor wives I know either end up divorcing or are happy doing all the parenting and domestic tasks.

This isn't something that anyone is really aware of before they get into the relationship. With the WFH culture, most couples have ended up with more opportunities for the man to help with childcare, dropoffs, appointments etc but medicine is one area where that's just not possible. DH leaves for work at 6:30am, comes home at 6-7pm, 5 days a week and is often away for seminars and trainings on the weekends.

We're just kind of in a limbo where every 3-4 months I get a mental breakdown from the stress of juggling childcare, my work, home chores, cooking etc. We have a few days of fighting and shouting and come up with a few points that could make things easier. These help a bit but then invariably something unplanned comes along that makes life tricky again.

Another thing I will probably get slated for for saying here is that you require mental load to alleviate mental load. Someone needs to hire and train nannies, fire them if it's not working out, manage the cleaners schedule (eg ensure everything is washed and ready for ironing), manage workers coming to the house, be the point of contact for random home appointments and constantly adjust your own schedule so you can accommodate all these people. It takes a significant amount of mental planning and physical time from your day. This is time you can't be working yourself the same way a husband who gets to leave the house and focus 100% on a job can. It's also often easier to just do things yourself then delegate.

Said an anaesthetic cons: when I send the trainee home early it's because I would much rather be alone than be with them.

It's not only the job, it is the obsession with the job that is problematic with most surgeons. It's so demanding that only the most obsessed can rise to the top. I know things are changing and doctors are fighting for even more change, but to get the best results out of their placements surgeons still do need to work long hours and be very available outside of those hours

I've dated lots of surgeons, and that was convenient at the time (cos we worked in the same places), but no way would I have married one or even had a long-term relationship, because I didn't want to move when they had to, let alone always be bottom of the queue for attention. You will never be number one with a surgeon, and that shows up early on in dating, so it isn't unreasonable to point out that OP surely knew what she was getting into.

I knew one female consultant at the time, and she was 'part time' in order to get a normal amount of working hours. Maybe that is more common for both sexes now, but my impression from friends is that it isn't.

Whilst consultant hours are less, lots of them are so involved with the job and their teams that they stay on for long hours, and others take second (private) jobs, or open their own private clinics. I don't think their families can compete with their work, on the whole.

It's also said that surgery has one of the highest rates of psychopaths of any profession. IME that's true too. And being obsessed with your work is a lot easier if you have someone dealing with the home stuff.

This chap gives OP a 'day off' - that's more than my ex-husband did, and he wasn't a surgeon.

They both work full time and they both have time at home when they're not working and not asleep. He doesn't spend 16 hours a day 5 days a week 'at work' unless he's choosing to significantly increase his hours above the standard 37.5 hours a week NHS working pattern and if he is, he needs to pay to cover the housekeeping duties that he's not doing his share of.

The OP also works full time and not all ''office work' is stress free or limited to standard hours.

In fact it seems like the OP gets more downtime than he does which is the key measure in this sort of scenario imho.

Trust me, surgeons build enough downtime in their lives! They have a bazillion colleagues on their Whatsapp chats swapping work stories and dodgy memes. They take advantage of the buffer time needed to get changed after work to stretch that into an extra-long coffee break, a lengthy phone call or catching up with people. They usually have a long commute and plan a few errands along the way whilst listening to music and decompressing after a long day (without screaming kids in the backseat). They will have at least 4-6 weekend seminars or workshops throughout the year that are tax-deductible and held at fancy hotels in fun locations. They will also have at least 1-3 boys holidays with many of the friends or colleagues mentioned above.

My husband was a surgeon. He was always up early as were the children. He always did breakfast with them as that was his time with them. Leave me in bed with coffee to wake up. He was out at 7.30.
Weekends we shared jobs, alternating naps. I was a SAHM but he always acknowledged that he could do his job because I did everything else. Not only was he a consultant but he was on national committees . When he was home he was fully present.
Unusually he was very grounded . Cleaners & odd job people are your friends!!!!!

Full & open conversation is what you need OP. Best of luck it’s not always mentally easy .

Hi OP. I'm sorry you're struggling. I was married to a surgeon but we split some time ago. My experience may be less relevant as we did not have children but he did work mad hours (in for 7am, sometimes not out for over 12 hours). He was in orthopaedics and also covered trauma which was completely unpredictable. Lots of time prepping for exams, publishing research to develop CV etc. they were tricky times but it had to be done for progression.

We were together in the Specialist Registrar years so he moved around every year to a new hospital although we had a house and he would come back for weekends when not on call and we would do things together. I appreciate you feel very stretched but he does seem to be really trying to make the effort to give you a break at the weekend.

I know as an experienced consultant many work part time and have much more flexibility but I appreciate this may not be relevant at the moment.

I would echo others in outsourcing as much as possible so you can enjoy the weekends and engage in some activities for yourself during the weekday evenings if possible. Do you have any local family who would babysit for a few hours so you can pursue something for yourself in the evening?

I'm a completely solo parent and have been from the birth of my child ( now in late primary years) so I understand the feeling of having to pick everything up but stepping away a couple of times a week really helped me. I also compressed my.hours to buy back one day a fortnight which I spend doing what I would like. Is this possible for you? Do you need to work FT at the moment?

Good luck to you both. I appreciate the challenges of both of your situations. I hope you manage to work things out

I'm not really sure what you expect your husband to do. He can't just walk out mid-surgery because you want him to help with bedtime, nor can he cancel the last operation of the day because you'd rather he did the school run.

Some professions come with flexibility, others don't. Unfortunately you married someone who falls into the latter category.

DH leaves for work at 6:30am, comes home at 6-7pm, 5 days a week and is often away for seminars and trainings on the weekends.

This is not unique to surgeons.
Funny how women (or men) married to surgeons think this workload is unique to surgeons.

There are many other careers where that kind of work is the norm- anything at exec/board level in the private sector, investment banking, private equity roles, to name a few.

My DH was out of the house that much as well as being away overnight during the week, quite often. And long haul flights cutting into our weekends.

I have friends who husbands were travelling internationally for 75% of the year.

Dh and I made a pact- I could never match his earnings even working full time, so my career took 2nd place. I worked part time. It wasn't ideal and I often felt frustrated. I had no family nearby to help out.

You don't mention employing a nanny to do nursery pickups, or maybe a cleaner/housekeeper to help with the chores.

It's no good complaining @Likao . You need to sit down and talk to each other, without arguing, and maybe consider couples' counselling.

it’s only a job, he’s not god. Tbh though the you doing nursery runs and getting a bit of downtime at the weekend doesn’t sound bad, but if he’s also doing fuck all in the house, get a cleaner in. Ultimately though life with wee ones is simply just hard work and hard going - it does get easier x

I think when he is at work it’s uncontrollable. But when he is at home it doesn’t stop him caring and being interested about you and dd. I married someone who expected me to do it all because he earned more. No longer together but for a multitude of reasons. It sounds like a lonely place op. You can’t change him but you can both consider therapy maybe he will understand more that way.

Maybe you can come up with a compromise or a schedule that works for both of you. Your feelings are valid and you deserve to feel supported. Don't hesitate to voice your concerns and feelings to DP. You're not alone in this, and I hope you find a resolution that works for both of you.

Who is to say the OP’s job is not meaningful? She works full time too. OP, get some childcare/cleaning help to lessen the load