If you’re married to a surgeon please tell me if you think I’m being unfair?

[Likao]

I am 40 and we have 1 dc age 2. I do everything for dd in terms of nursery runs, packing bags, ensuring dd has new shoes that fit, taking her to appointments etc. Any admin you can think of, I do.

i also work full time from home, so I have flexibility which is why I do nursery etc. At weekends DP will take dd out from 10ish to 4pm ish on a Saturday or Sunday so I can have a break. I don’t think this is ok or enough and I’m starting to get really pissed off that everything is left to me.

if I ask DP to do a specific task like put a wash on or pick up some food then he will. But what infuriates me is there is NEVER a sense of urgency from him to be home at a reasonable time and he would absolutely never ensure he was there to collect dd from nursery for example. I have to cut my data short often to collect her if unwell but he literally does not think he can do this because he can’t just leave patients (in his words). Obviously I know that there is a difference with his job but I am absolutely at the end of my tether tonight and very upset he’s been at work since 6am and not even asked how I’ve got on with dd and her bedtime (she’s very difficult at the moment). It’s making me very unhappy and feel very alone. It’s caused loads of arguments the last few weeks as I feel totally put upon. I don’t feel I have an equal relationship and the only answer I get back is that his job means he can’t do more. I’m sick of it all, should I expect more, is it fair?

I'm married to a surgeon and I don't think you're being entirely unreasonable. Sure, it can be very frustrating at time when he comes home late or has to go in early but overall he's brilliant at home. He does drop off and pick up at nursery, makes dinner if he's home before me, does every bath time and shares bedtime when he's home. I probably wouldn't expect him to collect our unwell children from nursery though unless he was on an admin day. Like previous PP have mentioned, patients have waited a long time to see him so for him to leave suddenly in the middle of a clinic/before an operation wouldn't be fair.
I think it's unfair to tar all surgeons with the same brush, I think it might be a "him" issue in your case. Can you sit down and have a good chat with him?

As PPs said, it's what you signed up for together knowing his career
AND you're allowed to be feeling burnt out.
The early years are tough. We learned very quickly that hiring help could get us through.
(Eg a cleaner, or a babysitter once a week so you can have a break, etc).

In the meantime, while you mull. When he makes noises about having another baby. Have a reply ready.

I don't like to think of him stopping an operation midway to collect child. The only person I know married to a surgeon works part-time and does nearly all the childcare. Are you able to reduce your hours?

6 hours a week is more than I get - I'm married to a farmer.

Listen to this woman and not all the ones saying “this is what you’ve signed up for”. It’s too late for them, they’ve been brainwashed. Save yourself!

I think the issue is his long hours - as others have mentioned, is this because he is training still so required to a certain amount, the commute to work making the day longer or is he choosing to work more (and if that's the case, for what reason e.g does it financially benefit the family to work more).
His job I doubt offers the flexibility of just being able to go if the child is ill at nursery, especially as there is someone else available to do so.

You also need to work out what it is you want, as 6 hours in a whole day is very lucky and I don't know anyone who gets that. So would you rather lose that time and gain his help during the week?

Generally I know it shouldn't but it does often fall to mums to sort many child related activities/appointments. But many mums also want to be involved e.g. if my child had a HV appointment I would want to be there, mine are now school age and I make the parent evening appointments to suit me as I want to be there to hear how they are doing (if I didn't do this and want to go then DH would go instead and we would try to book different time slots to allow this). So you need to think how much of it you are doing by choice and ultimately is it really a two parent job (you want him to come to appointments with you).
For things like shoes, could you ask him to do this on the Saturday and pop to the shoe shop? (or as I feel might be the case with some mums, you don't really want him doing this job and are likely to criticise what he would then come home with?)

What other jobs do you think he could be doing, or do you feel you need help with at home? Could hiring a cleaner help with the housework? Would ordering meal kits from hello fresh help with making dinners easier?

Yes I've heard this and it does make sense. When you think about it what they do is mind-boggling.

💯 this.

@Likao

Im married to an anaesthetist and we have 2 small children one of whom is disabled and my deal is exactly the same. Ultimately the job comes first and there’s never any sense of urgency. I’m default parent and eventually I just had to give up work because I had no other choice. They just have no flexibility to do anything to help the family but expect complete flexibility to help their job (e.g finishing whenever the case does…etc) and there’s zero accountability from them as a parent. I’ve personally found that people also massively excuse them due to their career. Everyone thinks DH should be doing more until I let slip he’s a doctor and then suddenly IABU and ‘knew what I was signing up to when I married a doctor’ I don’t think it would be the same if I were the doctor which is annoying. Suspect if it were us in their shoes we’d still get the ‘you’re a mum first’

He is arrogant and thinks he has a superior purpose to you. YANBU.

Bad example - you are both engaged in equally meaningful activity, unlike the OP and her husband.

I'm a little on the fence here @Likao and I wonder if you and your dh had a clear agreement and understanding about expectations before the baby came along. For full disclosure my DH was a barrister so similar genre and 120% commitment. I was fully aware when I went into it that he was a workaholic. For context too we married in 1991 so came to this with possibly a different generational slant.

Even before we married DH was crystal clear that he didn't cook and clean. That was fine as I love cooking and find it relaxing and easy. I had a cleaner before marriage and the difference afterwards was that he paid her, not me. He is also very very tidy but the other side of that is that he always expected to come home to a tidy house.

Typically DH was out of the house from 7am until 9pm. During big cases longer and when the dc were very small if he had a big case he would book an hotel Sunday to Thursday to avoid broken nights and to hyper focus on the case.

When DS was born I went back to work p/t when he was 4 months old but he was very poorly and I stopped work when he was 15 months. In that respect our paths differ from the op but one of the reasons for stopping was that dh could never step in when the baby was ill.

I did everything at home. Every appointment, parents' evening, drop off, pick up, matches, etc, everything. DH attended one ante-natal class and when I went into early labour at 27 weeks, his clerk had to wait outside the Court to bundle him into a cab. He arrived in time to meet his son and held him in his arms before he died.

I never minded or felt it was unfair but we worked as a team and together. Also DH 110% trusted me to deal with everything and I did even when I went back to work when our youngest was settled in reception because if we set out our free time on a spreadsheet it was equal. DH supported me retraining on an emotional/intellectual level but practically it took an au-pair. DH also never had an issue with jobs being sub-contracted to cleaners, gardeners, odd job men and I even had a tree man who delivered the Christmas trees and decorated them!

When we had littlies I got a lie in on Saturdays and he got one on Sundays and I didn't resent his football on Saturday afternoons. In any event, he took ds from the age of 3 😁.

We are mid 60s now and still working full-time. The DC are grown up.

Looking back I wouldn't change a thing and without DH the dc might not have gone to the best schools, there would be no home in France and the DC would have far less financial security for their whole lives.

Whilst he's never done the domestic load, after 36 years he still tells me he loves me before he goes to sleep and when he wakes up.

If there's one message I'd share op, it's to work together as a team towards your joint goals. Sometimes it takes different skills and different contributions to get the goals through the net.

My DH wasn’t a surgeon, but had a job where he was away 7/10 days at a time. It really pissed me off, he wouldn’t request anniversaries or birthdays off, said he couldn’t but I knew that was a lie.
When I went back to work he told me straight that he wouldn’t be ringing in sick if the kids were off school sick, so that I could go to work!!!!!
But to be fair, before I had the kids he did this job, so why did I think it would be any different after. I volunteered to give my career up to have kids, I could never earn any where near what he did, so I was being unfair as well.

You literally get a day off every weekend? I don’t think many people are going to be feeling you’re hard done by I’m afraid!

I agree but wondered do you do anything together, as a family of 3, on a Sunday for instance @Likao

Yes it would be interesting to compare with female surgeons in terms of cooking, cleaning, laundry, life admin. I wonder how many of those do little or nothing at home other than 'resting' after work and at weekends?

I have to say I agree with the poster that asked if your dh gets 6 hours to himself as well over the weekend. The fact he takes her so you get 6 hours to yourself is amazing. Your dh has a stressful demanding job and you need to be supportive. It sounds like he is supportive and does what he can for you. Would you rather your dh stay home with your dc and you take the demanding job working so many hours to support the family. It is stressful. My dh is not a surgeon, but he does work plenty of hours. We have 3 dc and a dog. The older two or 20 months apart and were a handful. I used to bath them, do bed time etc every night by myself and lets just say it is not easy putting to kids close in age to bed, esp when the older one does not like sleep as much! Weekends dh would do bedtime like once and help here or there. He takes one of the dc usually for a few hours during the weekends while I have the other two. This is how it has to be because the dc do sports and activities....so neither of us really get time to ourselves. But this is how it is when you become a parent. During the more busy times when our third was a baby/toddler we had an au pair to help. I think if you are feeling burnt out get help....nanny a couple times a week perhaps and a cleaner. Up until age 4 it can be difficult and overwhelming with kids...esp if you have more then one. But after 4 it becomes so much easier....

This!
i am not married to a surgeon - but am married to someone who is under similar levels of intense demanding hours and stress and commitment with lots of travel , long hours, unpredictability etc. His work is relentless and all consuming.
i realised early in when my kids were young that I couldn’t rely on him ever for help with family life, childcare etc. Even in an emergency. So we got some childcare help - and that eased the pressure alround. You don’t want to end up resenting your husband and his job - so find some help externally.

So does he get a continuous 6 hour break every week or not?

What an incredible post, and mirrors exactly my experience. If you marry into certain professions then finding a contented life within the relationship is your number one job. Otherwise it won’t work, and the marriage will fail.

To be at the very top of your game, in certain professions, regardless of gender, it requires an intense level of commitment and focus. It’s not for everyone.

Recognising that early on, deciding if it’s something you are happy to live with, and working out what matters to you - your goals, aspirations and needs that all have to be met within the parameters is essential. So what do you need op? Make a list. Get some help. Cut back your hours.

Joint goals, projects and utilising each others talents and abilities to support the family is key.

The best teams have each other’s back without question - they want the best for the order.

Contribution can look different in every family - but as long as it balances out with everyone working in different ways to build the foundations - it leads to fulfilment and contentment in my experience.

It’s his child. I will never, ever be GRATEFUL to my husband for spending a few hours a week with his own child. Jesus fucking Christ. He has done nothing else to meet the child’s needs in the other 6 days a week and he’s doing nothing practical on that Saturday either.

This is the answer. As a consultant surgeon my clinic days start at 8:30-8-45 and finish by 6.
Admin days are 9 - whenever he chooses.
only theatre days and on calls are unpredictable

You have six hours on Saturday to look after yourself. It’s more than many people get.

Get a cleaner once a week (even twice at times when things get a bit too much), set up regular deliveries for groceries. and maybe see if one of the nursery workers can pick up/drop off.

I assume you're a woman.