What if Sandie Peggie......... identifies as a Muslim Woman?

[eulittleb831]

I openly want to push why a male Doctor believes it to be acceptable to use an exclusively female changing room, intimidating and provoking an experienced nurse who was heavily menstruating, not that her cycle defines whether a male should be in a female changing room or not in my view. Surely the legal track of the employment tribunal would be entirely different, and his conduct would be impacting on her religious beliefs and privacy? Sandie Peggie is a white woman, is presumably not protected by any religious beliefs, but why? The Muslim community would not stand for his conduct and rightly so. Will any decision not in Ms Peggies favour be subsequently upended by Beth/Brian/Frank imposing himself on the women's changing room when a woman of colour or Muslim woman is enjoying the privacy of that space?

Have you got a link you're referring to?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd64p0dd034o

No OP, of course not. And you know this. I suspect the person concerned wouldn't dream of pushing their luck. It's all a power game.

Why could she not be protected by religious beliefs because she is white? I'm not sure I see your point.

Presumably and assumedly Christian - if she was or is a Muslim the narrative would be completely different - why? is the question I am asking

Because they'd be killed!!

It'd certainly be interesting .. .

He knows perfectly well white women pose no threat and can therefore bully and intimidate

YABU. The nurse removed herself from a situation she was uncomfortable in which is her right to do. I put YABU though because your bringing religion in to it. The nurse is not Muslim so what would happen if she was should not come into it, it’s irrelevant, it’s like you’re targeting Muslims. This has nothing to do with religion!

I've changed my vote to YABU. The doctor is transitioning (not just playing dress up) and there are cubicles within the changing room. I think that this should have been better managed. However the Nurse doesn't accept them as a woman, so the doctor would have to be given seperate changing facilities. I'd be more interested to know if the doctor is now allowed to carry out intimate examinations without a female chaperone. If it was in a warehouse my answer would be different. I'd say that the trans person should use the seperate facilities.

This is so disingenuous and it does the cause no favours.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-64835023

An autistic kid accidently dropped a Quran in Wakfield and was recorded as having committed a hate incident, the mother was left petrified after meeting with a group of 'community leaders' who issued death threats to her son.

This would never ever happen between white Christians in the UK today over a bible. And you know it. Pretending not to makes people look like liars which is very dangerous.

I don't think you understand what the OP is asking/saying

It will be because the ruling of the employment tribunal has to be universal and apply equally to all. He is clearly misrepresenting his sex and Sandie is not only standing for herself, but other women. I was reading the perspective of Pink News, and they repeatedly referred to her as Peggie but to the male as Dr Upton or Dr Beth Upton. Straight to the EAT and then the Court of Appeal if any attempt is made to validate his conduct.

"Dr Upton said previous incidents with Ms Peggie had escalated to a stage where it "had the potential to impact care" of patients.
Dr Upton cited an incident on 18 December, where a young child was brought in.
The tribunal was told Ms Peggie refused to acknowledge or look at Dr Upton when discussing the patient."

That's worrying tbf. If the nurse can't accept a trans person to that extent, she shouldn't be in nursing.

Or maybe those who impose on women’s spaces and intimidate women shouldn’t be in nursing -
tell me, how many complaints against sandie in her nursing career until men felt entitled to say they are women because they say so?

OK. Maybe they wouldn't be killed. But I've seen many many cases like the one in the OP. And they never involve religious minorities because of the optics I imagine. There must be a reason, and that is that they're confident the authorities would side with them, whereas in the case outlined by the OP I don't think they're confident they would. And with a teacher in hiding, and Charlie Hebdo and other such cases, they feel there would be a real threat in kicking a hornets nest. They prefer easy targets

Well it's the same as that white woman who idenfified as a black woman - Rachel something... she was totally shunned and rejected. Because you can't change your race right?
But men can change their sex is different. Because it's men. right?

If I worked with a man who consistently eroded boundaries and insisted on getting changed in front of me, or being there while I was getting changed, I would struggle to maintain a professional composure when working with them too. That is what happens when men set out to intimidate women.

Please read between the lines and join the dots - this has nothing to do with targeting any religion, the ruling of the ET has to apply universally.

So a trans person can't continue in their career? You gave to give up everything if you are trans? I'm gender critical and never agreed with self I.D, but what you are proposing is oppression.

I'd blame management for this. The doctor can't continue to use the men's changing room, because he us transitioning and presents as female. They should have addressed the lack of changing space. The Nurse should have been raising this internally rather than let an issue in the workplace affect patient care, especially the care of children.

You are arguing with yourself and making up nonsense. He can do whatever he wants just not impose on women's spaces. I am not proposing anything about what he or others like him should do, other than stay way from women's spaces - I distances myself from what you state completely.

Have you any evidence that Sandie let an issue in the workplace affect patient care? A male is transitioning to a male who presents as a female and everyone would accommodate him? He isn't a female and will never be a female.

Why on earth would you bring this up in a discussion about a man using a female only space?
I have a pretty good idea why you would, it would just be nice for you to confirm it

You are referring to what would then be a clash of ideologies. Trans vs muslim religion. An interesting debate.
I don’t think that nhs fife would be supporting this male doctor so very publicly if the female nurse was muslim tbh as the optics would not suit.
I am an atheist and don’t believe human beings can change sex so for me any such debate would be rather like asking if a unicorn would beat a dragon in a race.
What is really happening here is that a male is using a female changing room so he is obviously completely in the wrong but apparently this is not reality for some in these dystopian times.