What if Sandie Peggie......... identifies as a Muslim Woman?

[eulittleb831]

I openly want to push why a male Doctor believes it to be acceptable to use an exclusively female changing room, intimidating and provoking an experienced nurse who was heavily menstruating, not that her cycle defines whether a male should be in a female changing room or not in my view. Surely the legal track of the employment tribunal would be entirely different, and his conduct would be impacting on her religious beliefs and privacy? Sandie Peggie is a white woman, is presumably not protected by any religious beliefs, but why? The Muslim community would not stand for his conduct and rightly so. Will any decision not in Ms Peggies favour be subsequently upended by Beth/Brian/Frank imposing himself on the women's changing room when a woman of colour or Muslim woman is enjoying the privacy of that space?

The nurse seems to have behaved unprofessionally here. Regardless of her views on trans issues, she needs to treat colleagues respectfully in a work setting.

It is not sustainable to have a situation where she refuses to communicate with the doctor about patient care.

She may think the transitioning doctor shouldn’t be using the female changing room, but she should have raised her concerns through the appropriate channels rather than being rude.

In any event, there are cubicles in the changing room so this seems to be more a case of ideological and dogmatic views being put before what is best for staff and patients.

I'm not sure how it would work if the woman was from a religion where she couldn't share a space with men because surely the mantra is he's a woman - trans women are women. They would tell the woman that she's not sharing a space with a man.

If she was a Muslim there would be racism against her complaining and people would be saying, if you don’t like it go back to your own country. People would be posting that actually they feel more comfortable changing around men, Muslim women need to get over it.

It was in response to a comment asking the OP why they imagined there might be a difference. An insincere and unconvincing pretence that we don't all know what that difference is.

Would they? Where would this be said

In the hierarchy of oppression Dr Upton is at the top; white with xy chromosomes. It's a brave new world.

Any man pretending to be a woman is playing dress up. Their needs do not trump the needs of any other woman.

The nurse seems to have behaved unprofessionally here. Regardless of her views on trans issues, she needs to treat colleagues respectfully in a work setting

but the nurse wasn’t being treated with respect, they were being subjected to bullying and harassment by being forced to share sex specific spaces with a man. The colleague was forcefully trampling on her boundaries. I wouldn’t want to be tolerant of someone who behaved so appallingly and why should I be?

What sex specific space was she sharing given that there are lockers in the changing room? It sounds like the nurse wasn’t willing to share any space with a trans person as she also refused to communicate in a work capacity.

She did everything right. She raised it internally. Followed advice etc.

He complained that she waited outside the room. Complained that she came in the room. Complained she looked at him funny. Complained she didn’t look at him.

You have to hear him to believe the absolute shite he was complaining about.

I wouldn't have any issue at all working with a trans person.
But if someone who was genetically male insisted on changing in a female space I was changing in, I would feel intimidated and disrespected by them, and it's hard to work with someone who you feel disrespects you.

The issue isn't being trans, it's being disrespectful.

The alleged 'hate incidents':

(1) The nurse saw that the trans Dr was in the changing room so decided to wait outside. The trans Dr took notes of this incident.

(2) Number 1 happened again where the nurse saw that the Dr was in the changing room and decided to wait outside. Again notes taken by the Dr and discussed with their supervisor.

Nurse escalated her discomfort to the managers, they said speak to the Dr directly.

(3) The nurse was changing out of her blood stained clothes (perimenopausal period overflow) when the trans Dr came in. She said you shouldn't be in here. The Dr said they were allowed to be in here and said I'm sorry you feel uncomfortable. Dr then submitted a complaint saying it was a 'hate incident'. Nurse gets suspended.

This nurse had been working in A&E for 30 years without any complaints.

Muslim women make up a sizeable proportion of staff in the NHS, wait for it to happen

Women tend not to look abusive males in the eye. It often angers them & makes the abuse worse.

Dr Beth is perfectly free to continue with his career. He just needs to fuck off to the male changing facilities, where he belongs.

We all know that in these enlightened days of EDI, equity and respecting everybody, that these words still ring true:
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

Any staff member who refuses to communicate professionally with a colleague for ideological reasons cannot and should not be in a hospital setting.

Playing 'dress up' is exactly what he's doing. You can't transition to the opposite sex. It's just not possible.

I agree it isn’t possible. However, in this instance, there were private cubicles available. The nurse seems to have refused to have a professional relationship with the doctor for ideological reasons, which no hospital can tolerate.

Many of us are following the tribunal at the moment, there is no evidence that the nurse refused to communicate with him. She was asked by another staff member about a patient (presumably one allocated to Dr Upton), she replied to the staff member who asked the question, and Dr Upton has framed that as refusing to communicate and being unprofessional.

Honestly, if you were following it, you,'d see how incredibly thin the case is, plus it now appears that NHS Fife may have failed to disclose a lot of relevant documents that could potentially undermine their case.

I think you’ll find it was the other way around. When he became aware the nurse was avoiding changing with him, he started making notes about everything she did and got her suspended.

Presumption and assumption. Ah yes, the basis for a rational argument.
Bugger the facts.

But you can have your knob and balls removed and a vagina fashioned surgically. And those transitioning (properly) have testosterone reducing drugs.

Head to Tribunal Tweets for info
or FWR- 5 pages
don’t trust the media will report accurately
Transitioning ‘properly’ - what is that?
Sounds a little bit transphobic

GCAcademic

If I worked with a man who consistently eroded boundaries and insisted on getting changed in front of me, or being there while I was getting changed, I would struggle to maintain a professional composure when working with them too. That is what happens when men set out to intimidate women.

She told him that she felt uncomfortable with his presence more than once and then complained to management and was brushed off. He complained and they rushed to discipline and suspend her.

With all that went on, notwithstanding the fact that he's male and generally unsettling to women in a female only space, he was looking for a fight and manufactured one.

Transitioning indeed, he's still a man.