Page 5 | My son is scruffy and i don't care

EwwwwwwDavid · 2025-02-06T00:21:11+00:00

But my husband does. My son (11) comes home from high school with muddy shoes, muddy trousers, and today came home with a cut in his jumper. He comes home each day having drawn over his hands and arms, which sometimes creates ink stains on his shirts. I'm fed up of replacing shirts - they are clean, just stained. He has cut a slit into his trousers out of boredom. He cut his jumper intentionally, don't know why. He isn't a bad kid at all, it's not naughtiness, it could be inattentive ADHD but if it is it's mild. None of this really bothers me in the sense that he has clean clothes every day, goes to school relatively well-kept, and I believe it's all part of the high school transition. But I don't want to clean his shoes for him. I don't want to keep replacing clothes, especially logoed items. I don't want to keep mending clothes he intentionally damages. I'm happy to let him go in clean but scruffy - and ALL the lads he is friendly with come out of school an absolute mess. My husband strongly disagrees and thinks I should do the above. He has said he will do the mending if I won't (he can't sew). He thinks the teachers will judge DS and people will "think we are poor" (like thats an insult 🙄). But I've never cared much about appearance so maybe IABU. Would appreciate thoughts.

Original poster

EwwwwwwDavid · 06/02/2025 10:27

ExtraOnions · 06/02/2025 08:30

Who sends their children out in dirty and torn clothing ?

I have a “high functioning” ASD 18 year old, and I still have to say “make sure you put a clean top on” before we go out .. and I still stuck her washing in. She also has ADHD .. with particular issues around organisation - she’s getting much better, still a little behind her peers.

None of his clothes are dirty, but they do have ink stains. dots rather than anything more.

Ditto the shoes - they take too long to dry for me to machine wash them between school days. The mud has been removed but they are left with stains.

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ColourBlueColourPurple · 06/02/2025 10:30

The only thing I would have an issue with is the intentional damaging of clothes ie cutting his trousers. It's disrespectful to you. Perhaps paying for new items out of his pocket money or going to school with ripped clothes will sort it out. Otherwise the mess? I couldn't care less.

Felicityjoy · 06/02/2025 10:31

EwwwwwwDavid · 06/02/2025 10:16

The judgement wouldn't bother me, thats rather the point, and the difference between DH and me.

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It would bother me too. Can you get him pens with ink that washes off skin and out of clothes more easily? I’ve just googled it and found some recommendations. At least he could then start the day looking clean (apart possibly from the fabricy trainers, but maybe they can go in the washing machine at weekends?)

Original poster

EwwwwwwDavid · 06/02/2025 10:32

5128gap · 06/02/2025 08:16

Getting clothes dirty and untidy as a result of an active day is one thing. Deliberately cutting holes in clothes is another. It's not appropriate to spoil or destroy clothing on purpose and I think 11 is plenty old enough not to do it, so I'm with your husband on that. I also think there's a balance between not being too uptight about normal wear and tear and wearing scruffy like a badge of honour. This does seem to be a bit of a conceit amongst people who are class/wealth conscious, the 'only the working class care about clean and tidy' brigade, who think their children looking 'feral' (as they love to say) is a MC signifier.

I'm not wearing it like a badge of honour (i do know the people you mean), i just prioritise other things. I think its more my headspace rather than the kids, there is SO much i'm remembering / asking them to do / managing that I don't want to add more to that list!

(that being said, i also dont care if the car is muddy outside, it drives DH up the wall)

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Original poster

EwwwwwwDavid · 06/02/2025 10:33

TheGoddessFrigg · 06/02/2025 08:28

Oh dear I was that scruffy child. My parents had their own stuff going on when I was 11 and stated senior school. Nobody really bothered what I looked like or how many days I wore a school shirt, or if I brushed my hair.
I got bullied so much by the other kids, and when I see photos of myself then it makes me feel very sad because I just see a child nobody really bothered with.
Im with your husband on this

he is clean and smells nice
hair combed
goes in with clean clothes, all correct items of uniform
he comes home a scarecrow

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Original poster

EwwwwwwDavid · 06/02/2025 10:34

Wells37 · 06/02/2025 07:11

My son still comes covered in mud and he's 14! It washes out but I would be pretty annoyed if he was intentionally damaging his uniform with scissors. I would be getting him to replace the uniform with pocket money or removing a privilege as a punishment.
The odd accident fair enough but doing it on purpose isn't on. Does he do it to non uniform clothes?

he doesnt, but its a very different environment

I get it in the sense that i'm a picker - for me it was my body, for him it seems to be his clothes and equipment.

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Original poster

EwwwwwwDavid · 06/02/2025 10:35

RedSkyDelights · 06/02/2025 08:41

I guess it doesn't actually matter if he cares. If he didn't care about brushing his teeth or washing (which was my DS at 11), would you still insist upon them?

I think it's reasonable to have an expectation that he doesn't go to school in shoes that are caked in mud (and equally the compromise is that it's ok if they are a bit dirty) and that he needs to clean them to a reasonable standard. Or you would be open to an alternative solution e.g. he has a pair of trainers that are solely for football use that can get and stay as muddy as he wants.

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yes i would, for DD i do have to insist on the teeth (au-dhd)

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NeverDropYourMooncup · 06/02/2025 10:36

Drawing on his hands and arms is a bit scratchy and involves the reward of pressure and something to see.

Stopping it for some can be preventing a coping mechanism that can otherwise manifest as cutting/self harm.

The fact that he's also got access to something sharp and has already cut clothing makes me wonder whether your not caring/thinking he's the least affected/doesn't need a diagnosis is potentially allowing him to develop a dangerous way of handling things.

Have you seen his bare legs or arms recently?

bournevilleismyfavourite · 06/02/2025 10:37

as a teacher I would be asking if he can trial a fidget toy/doodle book to see if that helps his focus. I would be happy with this in my class if it helped. Clothes wise I would be upping standards as it does matter.

Original poster

EwwwwwwDavid · 06/02/2025 10:38

INeedAnotherName · 06/02/2025 10:07

The shoes are fabric so while DS / DH gets the mud off, they are sometimes stained until I can run them through the washing machine which needs to be at the weekend.
Why on earth can't DH or DS use a washing machine yet? Why does it have to be you?

Yes, he has had to keep his room tidy but with each age his responsibilities increase, so its tidying / cleaning / making bed / putting clothes away - whereas last year it was just tidying and clothes.
He's 11. Again, I was doing all that at 8yrs although dm helped with bed making I still had to strip and do pillowcases. I was ironing and cutting the lawn aged 9. By the time children get to senior school they need to know/do basic house chores, by 14 he should be able to cook at least two basic meals and put on the washer. How else is he going to survive as an adult? When do you think he should learn any of this? Teach him to survive and thrive, don't teach him he's too special to be responsible for anything and to find a naice girl like his mother to shack up with so he doesn't have to do anything.

Actions, responsibilities, consequences.

I'm really not teaching him that

he does the dishwasher when he gets home, clears the table after meals, he can make basic things (sandwiches, tea, scrambled eggs), he unloads the tumble dryer.

we divide jobs in our house - laundry is my task, cooking is DH (for example) and i really don't want anyone else to get involved.

But the same applies, even if someone else put the shoes in the washing machine, they would not dry overnight and would have to wait until the weekend.

No-one irons in this house...

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Original poster

EwwwwwwDavid · 06/02/2025 10:39

AngelinaFibres · 06/02/2025 08:55

You wouldn't struggle to get a diagnosis at his age. Far easier to diagnose an older child. You may have a long wait. Could you do it privately rather then waiting for the school system to grind on.

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I can go through Right to Choose, thats what we did for DD and for me. My wait was only 4 months!

It's more having really struggled with DD (when she had a billion symptoms), with no support from school or GP, i'm not hopeful i'll get support for DS when his symptoms are far fewer and less obvious

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Original poster

EwwwwwwDavid · 06/02/2025 10:40

Goodnightelizabethgoodnight · 06/02/2025 09:15

Literally any other consequence. Or just say, he doesn't get to play football on the way home from school if he doesn't scrub his shoes. If he ignores this, bigger consequence. No need to overcomplicate it.

"Show us you are responsible and deserve privileges, or those privileges are removed."

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its not even football! Its literally walking through muddy grass on his way to and from

and then him and his mates wrestle, they fall down, and everything ends up muddy

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Original poster

EwwwwwwDavid · 06/02/2025 10:41

Greenstamp · 06/02/2025 10:15

Give him blu tack.

Consider poppits, or pen toppers, or retractable rubbers which you move up and down, or those clicky 4 colour biros. It's easier with girls, a hair bobble on the wrist is completely unremarkable and they are more likely to want "toys" in their pencil case. But blu tack has saved many school jumper sleeves here.

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I will try all of these, thank you

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Original poster

EwwwwwwDavid · 06/02/2025 10:42

Felicityjoy · 06/02/2025 10:31

It would bother me too. Can you get him pens with ink that washes off skin and out of clothes more easily? I’ve just googled it and found some recommendations. At least he could then start the day looking clean (apart possibly from the fabricy trainers, but maybe they can go in the washing machine at weekends?)

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Unfortunately its the art pens that the school provide which make the indelible stains - absolutely nothing i have tried gets them out!

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GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 06/02/2025 10:42

If he’s deliberately damaging clothes by cutting them, I’d certainly be stopping any pocket money, and telling him it’s got to stop.

’Standard’ scruffiness is IMO a different matter.

UnbeatenMum · 06/02/2025 10:42

My autistic DD used to do this (cut or pick holes in clothes, scrape shoes, write on walls etc) and DS bites through his. Personally I do replace everything but I claim DLA for both of them and use this money. It was actually part of my claim for DD, I went into detail about extra costs compared to a typical child. DD is 13 now and I haven't had to replace anything due to cutting for ages.

bournevilleismyfavourite · 06/02/2025 10:43

I’ve just reread your posts. Up to you if you feel he needs a diagnosis. We didn’t pursue it with ours (suspected inattentive AdHD) as we felt it wouldn’t have helped as school were supportive of his needs without a diagnosis. But I would be chatting to him about the classroom environment and how he’s getting on/what would help him. Then be his advocate with the school. Be firm.(teacher here)

Original poster

EwwwwwwDavid · 06/02/2025 10:43

NeverDropYourMooncup · 06/02/2025 10:36

Drawing on his hands and arms is a bit scratchy and involves the reward of pressure and something to see.

Stopping it for some can be preventing a coping mechanism that can otherwise manifest as cutting/self harm.

The fact that he's also got access to something sharp and has already cut clothing makes me wonder whether your not caring/thinking he's the least affected/doesn't need a diagnosis is potentially allowing him to develop a dangerous way of handling things.

Have you seen his bare legs or arms recently?

All the time, he is basically in boxers at home. No cutting.

I am thinking he needs a diagnosis, this has solidified it even more.

He is also very good at sharing his feelings, heart on his (inky) sleeve that boy. I do believe that it is boredom in class and nothing more.

In fairness to DS, he wants to doodle in his book but is constantly stopped.

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bournevilleismyfavourite · 06/02/2025 10:44

Oh and please don’t get him clicky things as recommended up thread! Dementing. Blue tac is a good idea.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 06/02/2025 10:51

EwwwwwwDavid · 06/02/2025 10:43

All the time, he is basically in boxers at home. No cutting.

I am thinking he needs a diagnosis, this has solidified it even more.

He is also very good at sharing his feelings, heart on his (inky) sleeve that boy. I do believe that it is boredom in class and nothing more.

In fairness to DS, he wants to doodle in his book but is constantly stopped.

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Yeah, so did mine. Then her father went ballistic at the arm doodles when she went to stay with him for contact - and then the large sheet of paper on the wardrobe panel - and then decreed that everything had to be perfect, clothes, body, room because it was wilful destruction of his property.

Fortunately, a friend got her to hospital about two months later when it all came to a head.

Life's been far kinder to her since she was diagnosed.

Onlyvisiting · 06/02/2025 10:51

EwwwwwwDavid · 06/02/2025 10:43

All the time, he is basically in boxers at home. No cutting.

I am thinking he needs a diagnosis, this has solidified it even more.

He is also very good at sharing his feelings, heart on his (inky) sleeve that boy. I do believe that it is boredom in class and nothing more.

In fairness to DS, he wants to doodle in his book but is constantly stopped.

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It really does sound like there is something else going on here. Can you talk to the school about him having some kind of fidget toy for his hands or just a notebook for doodling in? Fine not to draw in his school books or on homework but banning it totally seems a bit ridiculous to me.

Original poster

EwwwwwwDavid · 06/02/2025 10:51

OK, so, thank you all SO much for your replies. As is typical with MN, what seems like a basic issue eventually becomes much deeper as it's explored.

I do think he has ADHD. whether a diagnosis will help depends on how school react.

I'm going to speak to the SENCO and go from there. Fidgeting seems to be the main result so I'll find out what support he can be offered.

I'll speak to DS again about what he feels would benefit him more in class and put some more fidget toys into his pencil case. He loves a fidget toy and has a great 3D printed one that is unobtrusive. Will also give him blutack and maybe a couple of elastics.

And I'm going to sew his jumper, and DS can watch and learn while i do it. I'll make it clear again that intentional damage is not acceptable.

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LeaderBee · 06/02/2025 10:53

INeedAnotherName · 06/02/2025 00:59

Get your child to clean his own shoes every night because once he realises what a pain it is especially when you could be watching tv/tiktok/fun stuff he will start to be more careful in not getting them as muddy in the first place. Actions and consequences. I was cleaning my own shoes when I was 8 btw.

If DH insists on having the clothes mended then DH can sew them. If he's bad at sewing then he will just have to learn how to do it better or stop complaining. Moaning and consequences 😉

and of course, as long as it doesn't bother DS)
Actions and consequences again. It it bothers him then he needs to stop ruining his clothes, he is no longer a baby. Parents are supposed to raise their child to be independent, kind and consider others - and sometimes this involves "life lessons". You stand your ground here, you are teaching your son something valuable.

Dunno,

If it was me and it meant walking over a huge muddy field to get home 10 minutes sooner or go the long way and not have to wash the shoes so i could "get an extra 5 minutes of tik tok" i'd cross the muddy field every time.

Especially in the cold.

Original poster

EwwwwwwDavid · 06/02/2025 10:53

NeverDropYourMooncup · 06/02/2025 10:51

Yeah, so did mine. Then her father went ballistic at the arm doodles when she went to stay with him for contact - and then the large sheet of paper on the wardrobe panel - and then decreed that everything had to be perfect, clothes, body, room because it was wilful destruction of his property.

Fortunately, a friend got her to hospital about two months later when it all came to a head.

Life's been far kinder to her since she was diagnosed.

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"then decreed that everything had to be perfect, clothes, body, room because it was wilful destruction of his property."

How much pressure did that put her under? I don't want to add even more pressure to DS. Whether others think he isn't doing enough or not, I think he is doing life at a level I'm happy with and that he can manage, at least for now.

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Original poster

EwwwwwwDavid · 06/02/2025 10:55

LeaderBee · 06/02/2025 10:53

Dunno,

If it was me and it meant walking over a huge muddy field to get home 10 minutes sooner or go the long way and not have to wash the shoes so i could "get an extra 5 minutes of tik tok" i'd cross the muddy field every time.

Especially in the cold.

Edited

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it doesnt change the time, he and his mates just like squelching on the grass that is next to the pavement

again though, it doesnt bother me. if something like that makes him happy, well, life is tough enough, why would i take that away.

I think DH (and perhaps some other parents here) would though, for the sake of not having muddy shoes

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