Hate speech but not hate

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Why is everything regarded as 'hate speech'. If I do not agree with your beliefs I don't hate you, I just don't agree. For example I believe in biological sex, not 'assigned gender or gender fluid or neither is gay or lesbian my thing but I don't hate anyone for their stance on it, neither would I be rude or harmful to them or wish to incite any harm to them, but why must my not having the same view be regarded as hate? I think the term hate speech is in itself inflammatory and hateful to both parties, agree or not?

Because it's pretty hateful to trans people to continuously diminish their lived experience. I'm sure plenty would scoff at that sentence but I don't really care, why should people log on to mn and see thread after thread of trans bashing it's awful. If you want to have a genuine debate about gender identification there's a time, place and way of doing it.

Flipped round, it's pretty hateful for biological women to continuously have their lived experience diminished. See how it works both ways?

Of course our laws are grounded in historical Christian roots. But here's the thing: those laws which really matter tend to be the same across almost all societies, irrespective of religion. Ask yourself why that is - I think it's because having those laws is necessary in order to maintain a functioning society, which is a matter of survival of the species. They are pragmatic, sensible and necessary.

What is ethically and morally 'acceptable' is subjective in nature and largely changes over time.
Absolutely. This is my whole point. So there was a time when it was acceptable to keep slaves, to rape your wife, to beat your children. Now it is not. We have evolved and learned to do better.
So why do we allow religions to remain set in stone on many of these things? Why do they get a pass when the rest of us do not? Why are they allowed to influence policies that affect those of us who are not of the faith?

And I do wonder why religions are so very obsessed by what consenting adults do with each other in bed. I'd respect them more if they focused their attentions on combating poverty, deprivation and exclusion (and yes, I know some do - but they still obsess about sex).

The problem is that man makes God in his own image. And it's not a pretty one - religions need to start holding a mirror up to themselves and asking 'Really?' of some of their tenets. Fortunately we now have denominations which are doing just that.

Who has bashed trans people? Is not believing in Christianity Christian-bashing?

If people don’t believe that being trans is a possibility then how can they believe in trans people?

No, but if I say I’m Christian and you say no you’re not it’s similiar.

I don't believe you can change sex which isn't a belief it's a fact. I believe in single sex spaces. I believe sex matters over identity (which doesn't appear to be able to be defined).

I believe there are people who think they are born in the wrong body, identify as something else which appears to be based on regressive sex stereotypes and they shouldn't be discriminated based on this, or based on the rights they already hold which are the same as everyone else.

I don't believe they are entitled to additional rights (biological males going into spaces and sports for women as these are sex segregated for a reason) or force me to believe something that's fundamentally untrue.

It’s not. If you say you’re a Christian then you’re telling me you believe in Christianity. Fine. Completely faith based. You don’t get to force me to believe in Christianity too, something that can’t be empirically proven. A male (or female) telling me they’re the opposite sex is impossible. They aren’t and can never be.

I mean, what kind of response do you think that you'd get from that, people would just shrug and walk away.

The thing about trans is the illusion only holds if everyone around the trans person capitulates to the idea that they have changed sex. Which is why gender critical heretics are the subject of such hate. Because they won't play the game.

I don’t believe you can change sex either.

But I do believe some people feel that being perceived as the opposite sex is more comfortable.

I agree with single sex spaces and the rest.

I don’t agree with removing them from the military.

I think you’ll find a lot of trans people would agree they don’t change sex.

Unfortunately the loud (questionable ) ones are the only ones heard.

@Itssofunny doesn't work like that does it, where are all the trans people making posts about cis people on here? Trans people in no way affect my life as a female, I'm sorry but they don't. You might feel like they affect yours then fine but I find the nature of these posts hateful and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Yeah, and that's fine. It's when that perception starts negatively infringing on other people's rights it becomes a problem.

Are trans people barred from the military completely or are they having to adhere to their correct sex class?

It's also pretty hateful to expect people to completely disregard the hard facts of science to fit with an ideology that diminishes and belittles the lived experiences of many many many women worldwide for centuries to save the feelings of others. Yes, there is a time and place for it and that is ALL THE TIME. And you may scoff at that too, but like you, I don't care at all.

Have a look over on Reddit. Trans people have quite a lot to say about 'cis' people. I thought cis was seen as a slur now on Mumsnet?

Just because it doesn't affect YOU doesn't mean it's not important and it can't be discussed. How selfish. Give an example of the 'hate' you keep seeing but can't say, it's getting boring!

Asserting that people who won't repeat a lie are committing hate speech is ridiculous, we can all agree with that though, right?

They have been banned completely.

Why would cis be a slur?

No one has to use it.

You perfectly illustrate my point, whatever I say, you want to assign hate, expression has become fearful, it's like a complicated dance, dare I make a misstep, choose a word that some may take a different way..it is now a fearful thing to just speak or write, better to be silent because somehow you will be vilified if you do not have a somehow universal acceptance of everything yet in effect by doing so know that some will find that in itself offensive because perhaps for example you don't stand for women's spaces. So full circle, the term 'hate speech' will silence us all.

Where did the OP say that?

OP, if you were in my presence and talking about 'the gay lifestyle' and 'choice', I would probably ask you (politely) whether you believe that being gay is a choice or a lifestyle. Because I would be confused and would want clarity about the kind of person you were.

Depending on your response, I would decide whether or not I wanted to continue being in your presence. You would remain free to believe what you wanted and to say what you wanted - but remember, words come with consequences.

I disagree with specifically banning trans people, that is definitely unfair discrimination. However, I do think they should be held to the same standards as anyone else in the military. If I have a life-long condition that means I need to take medication or if I have difficulty with my mental health, then I will have a harder time joining. That should apply to me whether I am trans or not.

Words have meaning. We all should choose them wisely. You calling being gay a lifestyle is offensive. I defend your right to say it though...as much I defend my own in saying you're homophonic.

You aren't a victim here OP.

Well you've been asked to clarify on it multiple times and have elected not to.

You're using obscure and confusing language, whether intentionally or not, and for many people the most logical interpretation is that you judge gay people I think that their sexuality is a choice.

Please could you clarify so I and many others don't continue to ascribe positions to you unfairly.

What about gay people isn't for you?

What opinions about homosexuality do you have that are not shared by homosexual people?
What are your different values?

Being gay or lesbian isn’t a matter of opinion or a position you can argue for or against