Hate speech but not hate

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Why is everything regarded as 'hate speech'. If I do not agree with your beliefs I don't hate you, I just don't agree. For example I believe in biological sex, not 'assigned gender or gender fluid or neither is gay or lesbian my thing but I don't hate anyone for their stance on it, neither would I be rude or harmful to them or wish to incite any harm to them, but why must my not having the same view be regarded as hate? I think the term hate speech is in itself inflammatory and hateful to both parties, agree or not?

The thing is - I'm very much considered a Terf! I don't hate men who pretend they're women or vice versa, I hate the movement. I will NEVER fall in line with their beliefs/hopes etc and I will always call them out on it - that is viewed as hate. It's not.

Being gay is "not your thing"? You mean you're not gay? Because absolutely no one thinks that not being gay is hate speach. 😕

How can you not agree with being gay? That's like not agreeing with people being black. I think you probably harbour some "rather interesting" views OP.

So you don't agree with same sex relationships in the same way as you don't agree with smoking? In my opinion, you are homophobic. Smoking is a choice and everyone knows is bad for your health. Your sexual orientation is not something you choose, it's an inate part of who you are. You sound like someone who would agree with conversion therapy or who would 'pray away the gay'.

People are free to follow whatever religion they choose. I am free to consider them ignorant and challenge their views if they express them to me. If I to say 'all followers of X religion are bigots and their faith should be banned', that would be hate speech. If I were to say to someone who told me that bring gay was a choice that they are wrong and to do some reading, that would not because I would be polite about it. Both of us on that scenario would be exercising our freedom of speech.

A person’s sexuality isn’t a personal preference like smoking though!! It’s offensive to compare the two things, smoking being a disgusting habit that people choose to partake of, that smells, is proven to kill people, and impacts others. Sexuality is an innate characteristic like race, and is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act. Smoking isn’t!

And I feel the same about gender identity as do most people IRL, but that is a can of worms on mn.

What? She said gay isn't her thing. I assume she means that she's not gay herself. She also went on to say that she is warm and friendly and kind to people who are gay/lesbian, including members of her own family. People like you are the problem and absolutely gives merit to the point of the OPs post. Ridiculous

You telling someone that a fundamental belief of their religion is wrong is no less hate speech than someone expressing their belief that homosexuality is wrong. Neither is expressing hatred towards people but a difference in ideology.

Your example of saying 'all followed of X religion are bigots and their faith should be banned' is equivalent to a religion person insulting gay people and suggesting homosexuality should be banned. This is totally different than someone saying that they don't agree with homosexuality as it is against their religious belief. In this scenario they wouldn't be expressing any hatred or insulting anyone.

Is it?

The trouble is hate is in the eye of the beholder.

I don’t think it’s hateful to refer to someone male using male words (man, he etc).

I also don’t think it’s hateful to force me to deny the evidence of my own eyes and lie. I think it’s abusive. Ditto forcing me to a belief I don’t hold, especially one that flies in the face of reality. It’s abusive.

But the first of those is considered hate speech. Even in a court of law where perjury is a thing.

(edited for typos)

You're deliberately misquoting me. My example was about someone claiming that being gay was a choice. Which would be wrong, as in 'manifestly incorrect', given that homosexuality occurs in at least 1500 higher but not sentient species on this planet. You are claiming I would call out someone who said they believed homosexuality was wrong, and I did not say that. Don't lie, it's considered wrong.

This is such a sad post and will stay with me. I’m so sorry that you’ve had these experiences in the 21st century.

Crazy to not believe in 'gayness'...it's a state of being.
Comparing it with smoking is comparing apples and oranges.

People are getting confused with all the 'wokeness' being pushed down our throats now. So a kid can claim they are a wolf or a cat, and everyone has to go along with this...otherwise the people in charge can call them despicable, as has happened recently at a school in England.

Hate speech is obviously wrong, but which idiots are now deciding what that actually is?

Unfortunately we live in a society with laws. We don't have complete freedom of speech and certain characteristics are protected.

You're welcome to hold racist or homophobic views - no one can control your thoughts. The problem is voicing those views where you're going to contradict the law.

The definition of hate speech isn't in the eye of the beholder; it's quite clear.

I know, it's ridiculous.

I'm a total sex realist and have no belief in gender ideology, but I certainly don't hate anyone over it. I'm perfectly friendly and civil to the young man who works in Aldi who's clearly trans identifying, I just don't think he's a woman. Same as I don't hate Christians because I don't believe in God.

You telling someone that a fundamental belief of their religion is wrong is no less hate speech than someone expressing their belief that homosexuality is wrong. Neither is expressing hatred towards people but a difference in ideology.

I disagree. Religion is a choice and is an ideology so two people disagreeing about religion would fit your "not expressing hatred but a difference in ideology". As would two people disagreeing about whether a man can become a woman.

Saying homosexuality (which is not a choice but part of who a person is, fundamentally) is wrong is homophobic in the same way saying that black people are wrong would be racist.

Personally I don't think it should be illegal to be homophobic but I reserve the right to call homophobes as such and to not invite them to my parties.

Really? Where does it say what counts as perjorative etc? Who decides that?

It’s entirely subjective.

I notice you swerve the actual example I gave, which has nothing to do with race or sexuality.

"In my family there are different faiths, smokers, lesbians but none of us feel there is hate because we hold different opinions"

If her way of saying she's straight is that she holds different opinions to lesbians then that is a spectacular turn of phrase.

Otherwise I'd love to know what her opinion on lesbianism is that differs from her lesnian friends and family members.

I agree with you, it doesn't change my opinion.
I'm not sure why people do it.

I think your post is a bit confused OP.

Gay people is not something you need to 'agree with' or not.

It is simply a fact that some people are gay and some people are heterosexual. It is part of their nature and not a choice that they make and it should be respected and no one should be discriminated against because of it.

Gender ideology is a different matter because people are asked to ignore facts and biology to go along with someone's desire to identify as something else. Again, I don't want to see any discrimination against trans people but I do want to see different opinions respected.

I didn't swerve your example. I explained that we don't have complete freedom of speech and certain characteristics are protected.

I understand that you want to be open about your views on trans people but unfortunately we don't have complete freedom of speech and certain characteristics are protected.

As pointed out earlier, many religious people don't agree with homosexuality but gay people are protected by the law. I understand that you don't agree with the law but unfortunately that's how society works.

You can have an opinion on anything you want and discuss it with anyone in a civilised way without straying into "hate speech".

What have you actually been saying and to whom?

I don't understand what you mean when you say being gay isn't your thing ? Do you mean you are not gay or do you mean you don't believe being gay is acceptable.
The former is fine many people are not gay the latter is not acceptable and if you say it it is hate speech because you are denying people their identity.

This is what I mean though. Many religions do believe that homosexuality is wrong and therefore acting on homosexual feelings is a (wrong) choice. In the same way that they believe sex before marriage is a choice even though there is plenty of evidence in the animal and human world that it is a natural part of life.

It's weaponising language. The TRAs were very good at shutting down debate. Telling people they are using hate speech, that they're bigots, be kind. The liberal lefts don't want to be unkind bigots so they've jumped in feet first, nodding in agreement.