We have no bedroom and it's stressful

[Fishandchipsareyum]

Hello

We have a small 2 bedroom house and the girls each need a bedroom as they are both autistic and eldest is a pda and 7 years older than the youngest. The girls don't get on my eldest needs a lock on her door inside so her sister isn't allowed in. We are going to put a little latch on it for her.

We initially thought it was going to be ok, we bought an expensive sofa bed from ikea. It was hideous to sleep on so had to replace with a day bed that pulls out to a double but the sofa is in the way so it can't be moved to pull day bed out ( it's a tiny livingroom also) we have so much stress and we have no adult space and all my clothes are mostly in box's under the day bed. Husband sleeps on a mattress.

Guess I'm just wondering if anyone else has no adult bedroom because the children need a room each.

We can't afford to buy a bigger place. So we are stuck.

All that fits In the living room is the seating and the day bed ( single size pushed in) and a small unit for my things. Tv is on the inbuilt fireplace.

Youngest room is large but awkward so I'm not sure it could be split into 2. There is her bed and toys and books and I need to store towels and husbands clothes in her room.

I just can't help dread getting older in this place. I try and be positive but I feel quite down. I work 24/7 ( minus the sleeping tike lol) and I would have enjoyed a place to call my own bedroom for rest.

I guess those who are saying why have another child if no bedroom space - your eldest has pda. Not the youngest. So you would have known the 2nd sibling would be sharing a bedroom would have been a problem

Equally the diagnosis may have been recent so when you planned no 2 , you thought they could share - or you were planning to move /buy a bigger house but col stopped that

either way op has 2 children and needs to find a way in current house to get sleep herself as well as her kids

splitting a film is the only way. Whether bedroom or living room and have an upstairs living room

looking at grants to see if can make the loft into a bedroom with a window and heating could be an option

In the hand washing example if they refuse and you force them you will likely tip them into a fight flight response everytime handwashing comes up in the future. 'Making' isn't a great strategy for pda.

There are strategies around giving control, novelty, depersonalising demands and others. That will result in the hands being washed, if you have managed to reduce the background level of anxiety enough. (Generally by not having lots of unnecessary demands)

So you could put a notice on the door saying hands must be washed before exit. You could say something like "we have two sinks in this house and new soap upstairs' as a statement containing no demand. I'm not suggesting these are fool proof wordings Or techniques. Just trying to give an idea.

@Frowningprovidence

Is right. My son is Autistic - he has some PDA traits and simply changing language was enough for us to make big differences.

’I’m finished in the bathroom now so you can do your teeth’ rather than ‘brush your teeth’ was a game changer.

How did you get a diagnosis of PDA, vs a child just not liking not being told what to do - as a genuine question? My 9 year old really struggles with being asked/told to do even basic activities, such as going to the toilet before we leave, getting dressed for school etc. The only way we manage to get her to do necessary activities is by asking DD2 she may sometimes follow, but if we don't specifically say 'please get dressed for school DD2 name' DD1 can go ballistic, if we say 'time to get dressed for school' she thinks it's aimed at her.
Luckily we live only 5 mins from school, and DH works from home, so I can walk DD2 in and come back for DD1 who starts 10 mins later, she will pretty much always be fully ready by time I get back, but if I ask her to hurry up to go at same time as DD2 then it's full meltdown. Somehow me going with DD2 seems to take the pressure off and she can get herself ready. I thought she was just being stroppy, but I do wonder if thete is a bit of PDA in there?

@Bushmillsbabe we don’t have a PDA diagnosis - his diagnosis is ASD but he has some PDA traits. I did some parenting courses and actually took a lot of advice I saw here to make changes.

It sounds like there could be some PDA at play for your daughter but I’m no expert.

What I will say is that since switching to very low demand parenting style life has become easier and he actually does more. It’s very complex. If I ask him to do me a favour (put on some laundry, grab my headphones from upstairs etc) he will do it no problem at all - he’s very good natured. It’s the demands on his body that are hard is my understanding.

It would normally be identified as part of an autism assessment but it's not actually that consistent. Some areas won't consider it, some say 'with signs of demand avoidance'

All people avoid demands sometimes for different degrees and different reason. pda isnt the only explanation for avoiding demands.

Also pda isn't just avoiding demands. It has key features around how the demands are avoided, being sociable but lacking depth and understanding, mood swings, obsessive behaviour often focused on a person, does a lot of role play. It often comes up when someone is autistic but autism strategies aren't working.

There is very little evidence that PDA is different to "extreme anxiety around being told what to do".

Well its extreme anxiety around demands (which arent just being told what to do -demands can take other forms)

But yes it's not well researched and evidenced and remains a bit contested as a diagnosis. It's certainly not one cahms give in my area.

Honestly... I dunno and yet clearly I am managing as I run my own business and am the sole earner here!

It helps that my partner doesn't ask me to do stuff in fact it'd normally be me asking him - but he has PDA as part of his ASD dx... so I tend to leave lists and we found that a 'whilst I do x, could you sort out y' works better than a 'do y now'. Not always!

For things I am reallllllllly struggling to do, I might body-double, so have someone with me, doing something else (not nagging!), or I might focus on the thing doing this thing allows me to do - ie, doing my tax return before friends have done theirs gives me the scope to take the piss out of their edgy risk taking nature (and they can take the piss back and call me a cowardy custard for doing it more than 2 mins before deadline). Silly things like that or promising myself some small reward can really help.

Sometimes I have to focus on the feeling of relief that having done the thing will give me.

I'd say it is easier as an adult because obviously I understand why these things have to be done, and what the true consequences of not doing them are, and the only person usually nagging me is me. I do hit problems when it's someone else though - I've been unable to attend appointments for health stuff on occasion!

I do have a lot of other things going on as well as the PDA - physical disability and AuDHD, I don't think PDA can occur all by itself!

Lift? Conversion nay not be as much as you think. Worth considering. You could do a lot of it yourself, pulldown ladder, blocks of insulation wool. The oldest might enjoy it as ga get away space

Yes we have actually decided to convert the loft on a budget, probably in stages. We need to open the hatch more or in a different position to be able to have decent safe stairs. Even just a narrow set. The hall way is so small. There is just a landing and the stairs are right there. So basically we were thinking of making a new bigger hatch ( opening in the ceiling ) in the largest room and having the stairs go from there up. I don't know if this is giving a decent picture of the plan. That will likely be the most expensive 1st step ?

Yes we had them diagnosed privately. They said it was ASD with the pda profile. They said my youngest is ASD with the adhd profile. It's a really difficult mix to parent.

My eldest was diagnosed when my 2nd was 1 years old. Before that , as she was living an only child low demand life up until I had number 2 we had no idea she was autistic. I thought she was just a sensitive child. My 2nd was diagnosed age 3 in Oct just past.

Is this available in Scotland?

It seems to be called something different

https://www.gov.scot/publications/funding-adaptations-home-guide-homeowners/pages/0/

I would share with your youngest. I have a weird bunk bed. It's a double bed with a single on top. Then got under bed draws from ikea that fit loads in.

Before I got our bunk I was on the day bed in the living room. Got rid of the sofa and put adult wardrobe in kids bedroom.

If I had space in the kitchen for a small sofa I would turn my living room into a bedroom and just not have a living room.

My PDA child with his own room has a high sleeper bed with wardrobe and desk underneath. This had made enough space for an arm chair. Could you do this with youngests room if you want to sleep downstairs make that bedroom into a bedroom/living room so you can leave the day bed out downstairs and only put it away for guests?

There are also such things as high sleeper double beds. I had one once and that was my bed in the living room with the sofa underneath. But I hated climbing the ladder for bed and as I get up for the loo overnight that didn't last long!

Also side note: you can get finger print door handle locks. My non PDA child has one so she can lock herself in safely but I can still get in as my fingerprint opens it. It also has a code I can give to any mythical babysitter who may need access. I was just too uncomfortable with her being in a locked room in case of fire etc.

https://www.bedkingdom.co.uk/noomi-nora-solid-wood-triple-bunk-bed.html?cqsrc=googleeads&cqcmp=16801363375&cqqterm=&cqplac=&cqqnet=x&cqplt=gp&gaddsource=1&gbraid=0AAAAADnvnQkKoFQI2bGAkerjq3M-qpJxC&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-5a9BhCBARIsACwMkJ54-yz98WdlA2acHWOWe9X4gJhJQGdcBbP7Z-UwWoTV58p7HHyBE0YaAiYBEALw_wcB#80=700

https://www.strictlybedsandbunks.co.uk/product/memphis-heavy-duty-high-sleeper-pine-bunk-bed/?attributepaabed-size=euro-single-non-standard-length&attributepaacolour=natural&gadsource=1&gbraid=0AAAAADp-eOB0TCVX95alpq5KFwzS4qTrg&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-5a9BhCBARIsACwMkJ5W8EByET1FNceYO2KyIJlmkxx4GIgHBhiDWcWFvopQPkfxqW2208aAsZ8EALw_wcB

Does anyone know if planning permission is needed for these things. Simple loft conversion, window added into roof ( where old one was and previous person had removed ) and bigger hatch in new location with stairs. We are in Scotland.

I’m in Scotland. Yes, you’ll need planning permission if you want to do it properly - and an architect too.

In no way recommending this but our old house had flooring and a window put in by the last owner. Was a total headache to buy and then sell the house (needed to retroactively get a “letter of comfort” twice) and guarantee no one would sleep up there for insurance reasons. We are the least risk adverse people ever so wouldn’t do it, but plenty on our old street had these sorts of loft situations.

We considered converting but would have had to lose a bedroom for the stairs and the quotes were super high so it was cheaper to move house. Depends a lot on your layout if you can make a conversion work.

Not necessarily on the planning if it comes under permitted development, but you will need Building Regulations.

Since you have two disabled children can you apply to go on the list for a council house?

Hi everyone. Thank you for the replies and ideas. I made a 2nd thread about loft ideas as the loft is also awkward lol

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5270163-unusual-loft-conversion-ideas

OP owns their own property.

Councils do not hand out council properties to people who own a property.

If there are people in the home with disabilities SO severe that their needs cannot be met, then it may be that the house can be sold, and the funds used toward suitable housing in conjunction with the local authority housing... but thats a hugely lengthy process, results in the home owner no longer being a true home owner and some severe restrictions and financial penalities should they choose to or need to move later on.

I'll eat my hat if two kids with ND comes anywhere near qualifying for that. People who have multiple children with severe physical disabilities struggle to get that!

Can you extend into the loft? Garage or out the back? Posh Summer house with en-suite? Devide the bigger room for the girls? How high is your ceiling in the bigger room? If high as in Victorian ceilings, put a mezzanine bed in for them so they have the whole floor space for storage and chilling? Put mezzanine for your selves in the second room for you two with storage steps so no space is wasted. Remove other seating in living room and just keep a sofa bed. Get a better mattress from ikea? Brainstormed…now develop xx