AIBU for standing my ground on this wedding issue

[WisteriaGardens]

Hi all, just looking for a little bit of insight/advice. Apologies in advance for the length of the post.

My partner and I are engaged and in the early stages of wedding planning. For background: we are both technically catholic and so are both of our families, however, none of us are practicing at all. So, I was surprised when my partner brought up that he wanted to get married in a church. I pushed back on this at the time with a variety of reasons including, neither of us being religious (he hasn't been to mass outside of having to go with school when he was younger), I have a lot of issues with organised religion generally, I prefer humanist ceremonies as they focus more on the couple. Just to name a few of my points.

The only reason he could give for a church wedding was that his parents had a church wedding and he sees it as traditional. I told him that if I believed for a second it was that important to him I would absolutely consider it and probably do it, however, as he hasn't been to church the entire time I've known him (despite there being a church a 2 minute walk from our house) I felt he was requesting it for the wrong reasons and it wasn't enough to make me compromise on my strong feelings against getting married in a church. I thought we had put the issue to bed because in the months since that conversation he didn't mention it again, didn't start attending mass to show that it is important to him and while visiting venues we've been talking in terms of the entire day being held there.

On Sunday we went to his parents for dinner and after the meal his mum asked me if we had decided where we were getting married ie, ceremony at the venue or in a church and I responded that I think it will all be at the venue as it's more convenient and I have no interest in a church wedding. I mentioned that my partner would like a church wedding but that I felt it didn't make sense as neither of us are practicing catholics. His mum genuinely didn't seem bothered either way as she is actually protestant but was married in a catholic church because it was what fiance's dad wanted, despite her own parents being unhappy with the decision.

However, his dad then piped up and started ranting on about although he didn't attend mass he still felt it was important to be married in the church and felt it was more special for the wedding to be blessed by god and really put down the idea of "just a legal marriage". I bit my tongue so as not to embarrass my fiancé and cause a row. He then said "What about when you have kids? Will they be raised catholic?" I responded that it didn't make much sense to me to raise potential children as catholic when we are not practicing catholics ourselves but that fiance and I would discuss it if we have children. His dad glanced at my fiance and said "I'd be putting my foot down about that". That comment absolutely enraged me and I did snap back "You don't get to put your foot down and neither does fiance". At that point fiance agreed and told his dad to drop it.

It's now caused a massive row between fiance and I which ended with me telling him that he's a hyopcrite and so is his dad to be making such an issue about a religion they don't follow in any way, shape or form. I'm also raging that his dad felt he had the right to try and intimidate me at the dinner table to get his way when our wedding and how we raise any children we might have are nothing to do with him!

I have compromised in regards to the wedding. I'm shy and self conscious so the typical big wedding has never been appealing to me but I knew it was important to my fiance and what he'd always envisioned so I've jumped on board with that, and have been happy to do it for him so with this church thing I just don't think I can concede.

Any thoughts or advice would be so appreciated as I'm so angry just now I can hardly think.

Agree.
I wouldn't take this from my own family, why on earth would you take it from another family and then marry into them.

Weak men make awful husbands as dozens and dozens of threads on here attest to.

His father sounds like the absolute dregs.

I got married in a CofE church and despite it being our family church going back generations, we had to attend marriage prep classes and prove we had substantial links to the church before getting married there, because my husband and myself are non-practising and so do not attend church. Just to forewarn you as some other PP have, that a catholic church wedding may well come with stipulations you are unable to meet.

Frankly? Seriously think about joining this family. (but do wear a Rangers scarf...)

Football? You think it's all about football? Over my dead body would I be stepping foot down the aisle with anyone who let 22 overpaid men kicking a bag of wind round a field and their two fanboys enter into proceedings.

Don't do it.

This is a madness. I know you want this wedding, but honestly marriage can be hard enough without this scenario before you've even started.

There is some deep seated ingrained bullshit going in here, I would absolutely hold off on the whole shebang until you've sorted the wheat from the chaff with your fiance. Do not underestimate what an influence your FIL is on the situation.

There's more going on here than just the topic at hand.

Your future FIL seems to be modeling an approach of "my way or the highway", and it seems he made your future MIL do things his way despite the objections of her own parents.

I think you should put the wedding on hold, quite frankly, until your fiance goes to therapy to unpack the legacy of his family dynamics - not specifically the religion bit but the domineering father and acquiescent mother dynamic.

The two of you need to explore the religion part too. If you marry in a Catholic church you will be required to do pre marriage counseling for a year and this topic will come up. But I would book the two of you in for secular couples counseling now so you can learn to discuss deep issues like this respectfully, and make decisions together.

You're both very reactive right now and that soeant bide well for your future together regardless of compromises. You need to learn to address conflicts better.

Agree with @Seas164 about deep seated issues here.

The picture I have in my head of FIL here is the dad/Grandad from Derry Girls

OP well done on sticking up for yourself! You sound like a really lovely, considerate person :)

These things have a habit of bringing out the worst in people, as well as very deep seated beliefs that don't really stack up with logic but are very hard to move on.

While I'm personally with you on this - non-religious people doing church weddings is a joke in my eyes - try and remember your beliefs/ feelings on this are really no more 'right' than theirs. For example, it's just as valid to think weddings vows don't mean anything at all as it is to think they must be in a church or they must be in a form you can get behind.

If you do end up conceding, perhaps a second set of humanist vows at the reception would be a way you can commit to meaningful vows yourself so that you're 'covered' too?

can you read?

Yeah, can spend their time and money to get to "paradise" every week but neither of them can walk 5 mins to mass even once a year! I think that really does show what their true religion is

Very unhappy situation, OP. Very best wishes.

I've spent a lot of time in Glasgow over the years and what previous a poster said about the tribal prejudices of sectarian, football-supporter older males is sadly all too true.

I hope that your fiance will find the strength to ignore his father's pressure and really listen to your feelings and then to respect your wishes. Compromise would be the ideal, but not easy.

I am sorry to digress, but can I mention just a couple of points that may/may not be relevant or helpful in your discussions:

• In Scotland it was NOT traditional for women to change their names on marriage (that only happened from the late 19th cent onwards). Women were known as 'Mary MacKenzie, wife of James Robertson' or 'Mary Mackenzie, Mrs Robertson', for example . Or just as 'Mary MacKenzie'.

• Among ordinary people throughout the UK, it was also NOT traditional to wear white frocks for a wedding. White was a totally impractical colour for women raising children and/or working in homes/fields/factories. In any case, wedding dresses were not usually specially made; brides wore the nicest - or only decent - frock that they had. If a wedding dress was, unusually, newly made for a wedding, it would be expected to be worn for several years afterwards.

• White weddings were a fashion started by Queen Victoria in 1840. Her white silk wedding dress was costly and luxurious (and dripping with priceless lace) - and worn only once (which was, again, utterly impractical for ordinary people. Rich people copied Victorian's choice of white (though they might try to dye the frock afterwards for re-use, or otherwise adapt it). but white wedding frocks for ordinary people only became widely available once cheap mass-produced factory-made clothes went on sale in shops and department stores at the end of the 19th century.

Aw jeez they want you to get married in the pineapple because of the Celtic!

I don't practise anything organised either. Not married though so maybe not qualified to comment either!

Anyway, I think I might have a church wedding for my fiance's sake, no one else's. Doesn't matter that neither of you are practising, I'd say the majority aren't either, and that's more or less accepted nowadays anyway. However, if he is being co-erced into it, run far away to Gretna Green!

Just remember, that depending on what country you are in, a prerequisite of a Catholic ceremony is that you BOTH attend a Pre Marriage Course, where someone tells you how to have a successful marriage with all the usual bits in there, love, sex, money, conflict resolution, yep you better believe it. You will not be married in Ireland anyway in a CC without having attended one. That might soften his cough if he still wants to go through with the church thing. Not sure if it applies in other countries though.

The "Mass" can be truncated for a wedding too, so the church bit is much shorter than an actual Mass. Look up Catholic wedding rite.

I know these things because someone I know got married in a CC in Ireland recently.

@Brefugee 🤣

🤣🤣🤣 I genuinely believe that's what it's all about but they'll never admit it

Only a fellow Glaswegian can understand the madness!

It is such a terrible mindset! My dad's Catholic and supports celtic as well but not to this degree that he would let it infringe on real life.

And thank you so much for all of that! I doubt it would help, my logic hasn't gotten me anywhere thus far! A non white dress is probably the next offence I'll be causing to his dad. I'll maybe hear about that at the next dinner lol!

I doubt very much that your fiancee can rock up to his local catholic church and have a wedding there. Have either of you been confirmed? Priest won't just marry non-practicing catholics.

You are making vows to each other, not the church. That’s the whole point.

So we both have been confirmed and done our holy communions through primary school but I still don't think we could go and ask to be married. I did say that to him when he first brought it up that it would mean us showing face at mass for a good while but he's never mentioned it again and obviously still hasn't attended

I'm an atheist and got married in church. DH was semi religious and said he wouldn't have felt married if we'd gone to the registry office ( the only option back then)

Not totally in a Catholic ceremony. You make vows to live in the religion, raise children in etc.

@MsMarch I grew up with a lot of jewish friends and one thing I always liked was that even the least religious ones out there, still saw being jewish as part of their identity and certainly among my jewish friends there was none of this angst about including jewis elements into their lifesstyles, weddings etc, even when they're not religious. One of my closest jewish friends is the least observant jew I've ever met - and eats more pork than I do - but she wouldnt have dreamed of getting married anywhere but under the chuppah.
I can only assume you're talking about Jewish people who married other Jewish people. As someone who married a non-religious Jew, there is no way I would have been allowed to marry under the chuppah. Unless I converted. I am also a committed atheist, it isn't a lack of belief but a strong positive belief in the human race (humanism with a small h). As the child of committed atheists and communists, I at least didn't have a religion and was unchristened so was part way there. I am totally on your side OP, it's not that you simply don't believe but that you have other beliefs which are more valid than religious tourism.

Depends on the priest. Some parishes are more liberal than others. The wedding is for both of you so your fiances feelings count as much as yours.

A church is for life, not just as a pretty wedding venue or for Christmas. If you are only nominally Christian, you are in a way being dishonest were you to marry in a church.