To think they call us Karen because they fear us

[InformEducateEntertain]

I absolutely hate the term Karen. It's pejorative and deeply unpleasant.

Middle aged women (of whom I am one and to whom the term is most generally applied) are bloody amazing. Putting us down for our don't give a f**k badass attitude and willingness to fight back strikes me as lazy categorisation.

I'd go as far to say that those who use it are scared by the knowledge that looking the menopause in the eye has given us the courage to have a voice at last.

AIBU?

I apologise for my mistake pointswinprizes ·
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We experience it in our own lives regularly. I’ve had it this week at work. I’ve had it within my own family (on my white side). It happens every day - you only need to watch a reality TV show like Big Brother or Love Island if you really want to see it in action. It’s horrible to live with and worse when it’s dismissed and we’re told to “prove” it’s happening.

I am sure all on here (who are woman) have dealt with underhand sexism often and not always called it out it would be tiresome to do so every time

If it was that simple things would be very different and well a name would not have caught on in the first place

I can not get my head around any white woman thinking it is her place to tell a black man or woman (or Asian) that they can not or should not use the term Karen as it is also used to shut women down and it was harmful (though I personally do not know any woman who would be silenced by being called a Karen if she had simply made a complaint/was being assertive)

It really does lack awareness on an astounding level

It’s not lack of awareness. We’re fully aware of what we are doing. We are pushing back on and ignoring your tiresome, weaponised and constant accusations of racism. Sometimes it’s because we simply don’t agree with your political definitions, but often it’s also because people simply no longer care. Nothing is ever good enough, you don’t want a meeting of minds or resolution, you just want to scold and chide and people to submit to your ideological beliefs around race and honestly you all seem to absolutely love doing it. So you’ll never relinquish the weapon that has worked so well for you over the last decade, but It’s over, the moment has passed and people are just bored and resentful of the hostility and lecturing.

Pushing back on my accusations of racism

No one has been racist towards me

I am not sure what you meant by you all seem to absolutely love doing it

Speak for yourself.

If you go back through the thread. There were posters who claimed that using terms like 'Karen' was cultural appropriation of black heritage, which they found offensive.

After taking up their invite to look into the history of using a name as an insult, it does seem to have it's history in black women using it to insult what they perceived as a demanding white woman.

I earlier pointed out if they wanted to 'own' a racist insult which is still in use today, then have at it. The rest of us will happily use it to call out unreasonable behaviour in anybody, be they male or female. My personal take is it is a description of a type of behaviour.

Using it as an insult

or as a term used to label a particular type of racist behaviour

Insulting someone for being racist 🤯 not sure what I can say about that

Well at least you admit you’re racist and do t care. I’d rather know where I stand than have to deal with people who deny the existence of racism, let alone own up to it themselves.

As a white woman I am astounded by Adamante's comment.

I'd suggest it is mostly used to label a certain type of behaviour, no matter the ethnicity or sex of the person behaving in a 'Karen' type way.

And we’re right back to square one (even after you “read up on” the origins of the term!) Dearie me.

I don't read anywhere in that post, that could be construed as racist. Being able to point out that some claims of racism are clearly not isn't unreasonable. Blocking reasonable discussion by throwing the 'you are racist' into it does nobody any good.

To be honest she’s just saying what the rest of the posters haven’t been brave enough to. That they know when they’re being racist, they just don’t care. It’s certainly a step up from feigned innocence.

So you consider the term a 'Karen' racist! As previously stated, I consider it differently. You want to be offended, again not my intention to offend, but I won't lose any sleep over it.

At this point I’m not even sure you know what you mean. You do realise you’re the one who said you think the term Karen is “racist towards white people”, don’t you? (Even after you acknowledged that it is a term used to call out racism committed by white people…)

No! I was invited to research the origins of people using plain names such as Karen as an insult with regard to black people.

That showed it had it's origins in one ethnicity using it as an insult to the women of another ethnicity. No matter how you dress that part up, it's origins were racially motivated. With white women being the target.

It’s interesting. This sounds like something Andrew Tate would write about women.

Oh and I do not say it is used by anybody as a racist slur. I have no control over your thought process or feelings. But the intentions weren't racist.

mostly maybe

but when used to label and acknowledge awareness of a type of racist behaviour it’s ok for people who do not have to deal with this racism aimed at them to tell person/people who are having to deal with this to be more thoughtful as its upsetting to some

I disagree.

As I said before, it's used to label behaviour someone perceives a certain way. They may not always be fair judges.

And as that usage has spread from black people labelling a pattern of behaviour they recognise in white women, to in the UK at least, mostly white people labelling what they perceive as entitled behaviour by mostly middle aged or older mostly white women, the behaviour being labelled has become less about politics and oppression and more about social cringe and policing in and out groups.

Sure, sometimes that white on white Karen really is an entitled customer or client throwing her weight around. But there are also a lot of people out there whose genuine reaction to anything a woman does to advocate for herself is to find her utterly, unbearably awful and unreasonable, and they just love having a label to shut those women up with, one that is extra delicious because if she says she isn't it only proves she is.

Excellent post

I agree with this most certainly in the UK and imagine claiming it is not used this was is in the very least being obtuse

You have once again laboured under the misapprehension that you speak for everyone and that your opinions are facts

TBH I’ve seen racist comments from a couple of posters but not the ones who people think they are