To think they call us Karen because they fear us

[InformEducateEntertain]

I absolutely hate the term Karen. It's pejorative and deeply unpleasant.

Middle aged women (of whom I am one and to whom the term is most generally applied) are bloody amazing. Putting us down for our don't give a f**k badass attitude and willingness to fight back strikes me as lazy categorisation.

I'd go as far to say that those who use it are scared by the knowledge that looking the menopause in the eye has given us the courage to have a voice at last.

AIBU?

I agree with you. In further googling neither of them made a complaint about the other. So nobody got into legal bother (probably a wise move both ends given how it would have looked good to a jury for either of them should it have got to that stage). But the applause and celebration because “well she’s a Karen” is living proof that Karen is a slur, damaging and should be immediately called out by anyone who gives half a shit about women’s rights

That a woman’s name has been picked to name racist behaviour is unfortunate for those women with this name but the bigger issue is the racism as the impact is a bigger issue than a relatively few women feeling pissed off their name has been used

the issue that it has been taken up to shut women down is an issue with those using the term any word could catch on and be used in the same way but it just so happens Karen has. Since when have so many woman who have been assertive been shut down by being called whatever term is in use at that time. The calm it down, or calm down women never silenced women and was annoying but I do not ever remember such annoyance about this being used it was aimed at those using it as it should be now.

for many Karen sums up a particular type of racist behaviour that they are having to deal with and calling it out or stating the behaviour is recognised if you feel it’s uncalled for well maybe it was but maybe actually it wasn’t and you need to look at your behaviour

Not the woman in the other video. Of course not.

Phew! Just clarifying 😊

We may disagree but definitely not about that! lol

for many Karen sums up a particular type of racist behaviour that they are having to deal

And for far far more, it means a woman who likes complaining to the manager, or just a woman who says something they don't like. That's the point! It's a sexist insult that could be levelled at any woman.

It sounds like a new term is needed for a racist white woman. Preferably one that isn't a common name.

I actually would love it if we didn’t need a name and just like men calling out other men, white women called out racist white women more.

Or people called out other people on racism without bringing gender into it? Why the need for specific female names and once again where is the male version? How is gendering racism then spending a Sunday explaining the 'grain of truth' argument which is used to bavk up all discrimination not reacting in a sexist way to racism?

So that what it’s aimed at women more in everyday scenarios than it’s used to recognise/call out particular racist behaviour Karen should be changed another word

so those having to deal with a particular type of racist behaviour need to think about all white women and what is and isn’t offence towards them before deciding what word to use

right ok 👍

Why do we need a term for racist women specifically? Rather than a term for racist people like…well, racist.

Well give it some thought…

How about this POV? The world already has the absolutely unacceptable angry black woman label to control women, but that leaves some out so as soon as Karen comes along as an idea that is jumped on. Even better than one put down as its devisive and this Karen idea is awesome as it also teaches young women to mistrust the opinions of their older and possibly wiser, certainly more experienced. In order to avoid being labelled either an angry black woman or a Karen we need to be extra patient and calm. Men carry on body slamming etc and don't get any nasty label put downs. Excellent

I’ve already told you, you’re absolutely free to call rapists rapists. Or indeed any other word that you like.

And yes, people of colour do have a right to a term to describe a particular manifestation of racism. The feelings of white people do not trump the right of a minority community to name and specify different ways in which they experience racism.

So no reason at all then?

I don't think that is what is being suggested. This thread has shown me the background to the name Karen, I wasn't aware and thanks for that understanding. It is also true that lots of people are just using Karen as a general idea to put women down without any idea of the initial reasons for the label. Unfortunately many constructs have unconscious sexism in them, I think this is an example of that. It is possible to be anti racist but sexist. That does not seem to be being accepted.

I do think it’s interesting that “angry black woman”has been around forever and seems to fly under the radar in terms of racist language.

Not much of a fuss about that it seems.

I admit my own bias in terms of the fact some white women seem to use feminist issues to fight for “ all women “ but mainly when it affects white women.

No answer then. At least we've moved on from dick and gammon, small mercies.

I don’t think anyone thinks you can’t be both anti-racist and sexist.

But the point is that there is a manifestation of racism which is inherently tied to some women’s leveraging of aspects of being women for racist purposes. It is specifically a female manifestation of racism - and so using a female term to describe that is not in itself sexist.

Of course the problem is that one of the most active posters here has been at pains to deny such a manifestation of racism exists or is a problem.

This thread isn’t ’to think the term Karen should not be used too liberally’ or ‘to think there is a better term to describe the particular manifestation of racism than Karen’. If it were this could be a very different discussion.

Instead it is full of posters claiming they know better than people of colour how racism manifesta itself and denying or minimising the very widely recounted experiences of people of colour.

Still not seen a cogent argument as to why white women being racist is worse than white men being racist? Or why being a racist needs to be gendered at all?

I can see that perspecive and agree it happens. We all need that world of all women to come, much stronger together. Angry Black Women is not challenged enough, these things are so hard even to articulate but pervade society.

Who said white women being racist is worse than white men being racist?

And the reason it is gendered is because Karen behaviour is a very specific gendered manifestation of racism. No one says it is worse than any other manifestation of racism - but it exists and people have a right to identify it and address it specifically.

I agree the discussion has got larger than the original question and am grateful for what I have learnt from it. I really have no intention to minise racism.

Minimise even

I think the issue is that the term, in its gender specific structure, is weaponised against all women now regardless of race in many parts of society through appropriation. It is possible that condeming the female role specifically comes from a place of sexism. I would be careful about backing the Karen users too far....

I think people can pick up on when racism is directed at then that isn’t explicit

don’t you ?

being called racist the reply will likely be tell me how I was racist which then could lead to a back and forth interaction that isn’t necessarily wanted

it’s a term for a behaviour