To be really glad I don't live in America right now

[AnonymousBleep]

I really feel for ordinary Americans. It's bad enough on this side of the Channel, hearing daily about Trump's latest petty, spiteful, idiotic bullshit - that rant against the Bishop who asked him to have mercy on immigrants, the ridiculous and insulting attempt to blame 'diversity' for the plane crash - but living under it must be so much worse. And heaven help you if you're LGBT or a woman. Or an immigrant. Or not white. Or poor. Or anyone else Trump and his freakshow of a government despises. I moan about the UK all the time, like everyone else who lives here, because god knows it's far from perfect, but at least we don't have a government in charge who is trying to strip huge swathes of the population of their rights and citizenship.

I'm kind of waking up to the chilling realisation just how much most people hate and distrust foreigners and immigrants and how much a lot of men hate women and want to see them suffer and to have women's rights and lives under their control. The Trumps, Farages and Musks of this world are just making it possible for people to vocalise these feelings.

how on earth could it be worse?!?! also the amount of aid money that goes to Gaza right now is huge - how about instead of spending it there, for it to be blown up a week later, it was used to pay to set up a viable Palestinian homeland, somewhere where they wo;t get blown up?

Why is that mad?

Israel is not going anywhere! never! And as I said, I am definitely ant zionist, but they are there. never leaving.

Principles are sometimes less important than stopping being blown up

I hate the term 'zionist' or 'anti-zionist' but I doubt that's true as you wouldn't be suggesting this 'solution'.

If you can't see how it would make it worse, I can't help you. I assume you're an American who's never visited the middle east.

what a lot of assumptions you are making.

what a lack of solutions you are proposing

what a lot of pretending the status quo is ok - you are doing.

So funny! Yes he promised cheaper groceries but guess what with the tax cuts that Trump has given to the billionaires he has a deficit so that means tariffs, which will mean things will cost more for the average American. Elon’s wealth has increased to 154 billion under Trump. Meta, google and other corporations are benefiting from the huge tax cuts that ordinary Americans will have to fund. I hope that though keeps them warm at night when they can’t pay their bills.

I'm not a politician and can't solve the Israel/Palestine problem but the USA ethnically cleansing Gaza is - CLEARLY - not the solution. I am not responding to you any further.

@SernieBanders

I'm quite passionately anti zionist, and left leaning. But I have come to the conclusion that Israel is never going to go anywhere and so possibly the best thing to do is to move the Palestinians, who to be clear I think have a better claim to the land, to somewhere where they will not be perpetual victims of war. There will never be peace until someone moves, and Israel, backed by the US, is never going to is it.

Neither Egypt nor Jordan wish to take any displaced Palestinian people.

What is happening here is Bibi requesting US military assistance with his ethnic cleanse. Trump, in his speech, was simply too clear with what he, Bibi and Jared Kushner would then do with the cleared territory.

The big issue is you somehow think you can force Israel to accept a hostile Gazan presence next door. Even America cannot do that.

@SernieBanders

how on earth could it be worse?!?! also the amount of aid money that goes to Gaza right now is huge - how about instead of spending it there, for it to be blown up a week later, it was used to pay to set up a viable Palestinian homeland, somewhere where they wo;t get blown up?

It is a spiritual homeland. They have a deep religious connection to this place, so it isn't a case of being able to simply pack up and set elsewhere and job done.

Of course, that's also the very same reason Israel wants it.

Also - it didn't really work setting up a whole country (Israel) for a displaced people, as that meant displacing the people who already lived there. Doing it again with the Palestinians won't end well down the line.

So what is your solution that does not rely on Israel suddenly not being Israel?

So you negotiate peace. We had it in the UK with Ireland for decades, with the Troubles, before the Good Friday Agreement. It's possible but requires good will from both sides. Bibi is just as guilty of being hostile to Gaza as vice versa.

But life literally DOES begin at conception! I'm pro-choice but these are just basic facts.

Trump is not for women’s rights. In the red states they are already reintroducing and pushing covenant marriages as law. They’ll do this by incentivising tax breaks and pushing this through churches. It removes the ability of a no-fault divorce if you sign up to one and this will disproportionately affect poorer women. This means they will have to prove abuse to get out of the marriage, which in theory sounds easy but we know hard that is (just look on the boards here for women that try to leave their husbands). The republicans know women choose to end their marriages more so than men, so they want to make it harder to leave. They’re also making it harder to access contraception and anti abortion but they’ll throw women a bone with the whole trans culture wars. But I don’t live there and they voted for this.

I get what you are saying but …

Israel is not the UK. And Ireland is not Gaza. And both sides trusted America
as a negotiating partner.

It’s just not possible. Israel covets that land and will not give up their claim because you think it’s the right thing to do. They do not operate on that basis

I know they won't. But giving into bullies isn't the solution. Nor is scattering 2 million angry stateless people with no money and no homes across the middle east. In fact now what we've got is two bullies - Trump and Bibi - teaming up to force ethnic cleansing. The glib comments about Gaza being prime real estate and turning it into the 'Middle Eastern Riviera' have made me feel sick.

I have family there in Blue States who are meandering along ok.

But I do feel sorry for them have The Orange Mad Man in power. But it’s his fanbots that are more disturbing. I saw he has clearly called for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza with colonisation by the USA yet all of his supporters see no issue with this.

He is mad but his supporters are madder. There is literally nothing he could do or say that would put them off.

So you are also calling for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza?

No. I am saying someone has to quit, and Israel never will, so best cut your losses and take a different path. As I mentioned many times, I am passionately antizionist.

But people don't want to think about these things. They would rather close their eyes to reality and believe the 'sunlit uplands' lies fed to them, even in the knowledge they are being lied to. Then blame the misery of their lives on immigrants.

Is that a yes or no to the proposed forced relocation of Gazans as Trump is recommended?

Also for all those people who claimed Trump was against the USA involving itself in foreign wars….

I just preferred Trump’s policies. Not exactly happy with Gaza but still preferable to Harris et al.

In fact I’m very optimistic for the future of my country.

I will wait and see. Not entirely happy with Gaza (prefer to do nothing except pull funding from Israel) but willing to see where he goes with this.

He’s 100 times better than Harris

How is he 100 times better than Harris?