Page 11 | To be really glad I don't live in America right now

izimbra · 31/01/2025 19:41

For anyone interested in what's actually happening as far as women's reproductive rights in the USA are concerned, Jessica Valenti is a good person to follow on social media.

www.instagram.com/jessicavalenti/?hl=en

ByCyanMoose · 31/01/2025 19:50

AnonymousBleep · 31/01/2025 09:57

I really feel for ordinary Americans. It's bad enough on this side of the Channel, hearing daily about Trump's latest petty, spiteful, idiotic bullshit - that rant against the Bishop who asked him to have mercy on immigrants, the ridiculous and insulting attempt to blame 'diversity' for the plane crash - but living under it must be so much worse. And heaven help you if you're LGBT or a woman. Or an immigrant. Or not white. Or poor. Or anyone else Trump and his freakshow of a government despises. I moan about the UK all the time, like everyone else who lives here, because god knows it's far from perfect, but at least we don't have a government in charge who is trying to strip huge swathes of the population of their rights and citizenship.

The basic difference between the US and the UK right now is that the Prime Minister is generally considered to be a rational, mentally stable adult still in full control of his faculties. This cannot be said of President Trump, which is a scary thing since he is more powerful than ten Keir Starmers.

It is also the case that no PM has attempted to remain in power by formenting an insurrection, and then given unconditional pardons to those who acted violently on his behalf.

These are extremely important distinctions that go beyond policy.

Tekbrobillionaire · 31/01/2025 20:09

AnonymousBleep · 31/01/2025 13:49

Where am I denying that people don't agree with me? Obviously not everyone agrees with me, otherwise Trump couldn't possibly have got in.

I just don't think he's good for America or what a majority of them actually want. Their democracy is pretty shaky (as is ours, but theirs is visibly even easier to game). A majority of people don't want Labour - or any of the parties, they almost never get a majority - but we've never treated a Prime Minister like they're the Second Coming and they don't have presidential powers anyway.

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Their democracy is shaky and easy to game? You mean like the Democrats do not want voter ID?

Your OP and subsequent posts are pretty insulting to the American people. He won all 7 swing states, popular vote, the Senate and the House. He’s doing what he said he would do and doing it with alacrity.

You need something to cure your bout of TDS or stay in your left wing echo chamber and wonder why America will thrive whilst the UK is rapidly going down the pan with this most unpopular, miserable, mendacious, economically illiterate, hypocritical government.

Hoardasurass · 31/01/2025 20:28

BruFord · 31/01/2025 18:15

@lifeturnsonadime The ongoing failure to codify Roe vs. Wade truly mystifies me. The decision was made in 1973, before most of us were born. Nixon was president ffs!

I don’t understand why such an important women’s right was kept so precarious,.

It's quite simple, if somewhat cynical.
The republican party are generally speaking anti abortion and as such whilst they wouldn't actively outlaw it (their not idiots and know that they'd never get back in power) they were never going to make it properly legal and would keep trying to roll it back bit by bit so they could keep the anti choice lot on side without alienating the pro choice lot, until there was a general consensus among a large majority of voters in 1 direction or the other (an event that is highly unlikely to ever occur) and would then go with whatever it was.
The Democrats on the other hand who are supposedly pro abortion rights needed the threat of the republicans outlawing it to use as a threat to keep women voting for them even when it was actually more harmful for women to do so. Basically even knowing that Roe V Wade was a terrible judgement that was always going to fail at appeal (bad law for a good and correct reason) the Democrats decided that it was better to risk women's lives, health and wellbeing so that they could have a carrot and a stick to threaten women with to coerce their votes, even when the writing was on the wall Biden and co did nothing. Admittedly he didn't have the numbers to force it through but he still could have tried but didn't (ask yourself why). Obama had the numbers and it was an election pledge but still choose to keep women at risk to keep the carrot and stick.
It's sad really neither party cared enough about women to enshrine our rights in law, instead choosing to use us as a political football and to he'll with the consequences to women.

Hoardasurass · 31/01/2025 20:38

ByCyanMoose · 31/01/2025 19:50

The basic difference between the US and the UK right now is that the Prime Minister is generally considered to be a rational, mentally stable adult still in full control of his faculties. This cannot be said of President Trump, which is a scary thing since he is more powerful than ten Keir Starmers.

It is also the case that no PM has attempted to remain in power by formenting an insurrection, and then given unconditional pardons to those who acted violently on his behalf.

These are extremely important distinctions that go beyond policy.

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Oliver Cromwell did kill a king and half the nobility in a civil war he fermented and then made himself Lord protector though

kirbykirby · 31/01/2025 20:39

AnonymousBleep · 31/01/2025 18:52

Are there loads of people who are desperate to go there?

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Yes, absolutely millions.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 31/01/2025 20:44

izimbra · 31/01/2025 19:38

For those of you who are not aware - the Trump second term plan, AKA Project 2025, is to shrink the state so it's small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Hence the emails having gone out to 3 million federal employees offering them money to resign.

The plan is to make the structures of government collapse so that people stop relying on it for healthcare, social services, welfare, food safety regulation etc etc.

It's a radical far right neo-liberal agenda.

@saltinesandcoffeecups

"what better way to to energize your base year after year then to trot out the “OMG they want to take your abortion rights away’ line."

They do.

Trump's boasted about how his supreme court picks have impacted on abortion access across the USA. Why do you think Christian Nationalists love him so much?

The whole 'I won't pass a national abortion ban' is just about creating plausible deniability.

Meanwhile plans are afoot to put major obstacles in the way of women accessing abortion care via the use of the Comstock Act, the threat of endless 'investigations' into the safety of Mifepristone, legislation in other areas referring to fetal personhood that is planting a seed that can later be used by the anti-abortion movement to push for a total ban on abortion from conception.

I'm wondering if you know this but you're just really cynical. You sound quite educated, but you're also on mumsnet quite a lot amplifying pro-Trump propaganda and misinformation.

That is a serious accusation… what misinformation have I promoted?

lazyarse123 · 31/01/2025 20:46

Dotjones · 31/01/2025 10:10

There are a lot of people who look at the UK and are glad they don't live here right now. We're not in any better a place.

You may not like Trump but there are plenty of people who think Starmer is no better.

If you're hard left you'll hate Trump, if you're hard right you'll hate Starmer. If you're in between you'll probably dislike both of them.

FWIW I think the diversity argument is worth investigating. Jobs like controlling aircraft should be done by the best people to do them. Diversity should mean that the best person gets the job regardless of their background, i.e. if the best candidate is a black lesbian that shouldn't matter, not that a substandard candidate gets the job simply because they are a black lesbian.

It absolutely should be investigated but that's the point it's not been investigated yet and when it is the results will be made public. He was incredibly out of order to say it when he did. Nearly 70 people died in a horrific way and he's point scoring.

MissConductUS · 31/01/2025 20:48

LifeExperience · 31/01/2025 15:58

The US is always a very terrible, horrible, no good place to be according to most MNers. The vast majority here know nothing about it, but there a few experts who spent a week at Disney once.

I'm American, and the US that I read about on here shows no resemblance to the real US. But MNers don't want to hear that.

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Word.

I think that there are a few MN's who like to spin up a gratuitous "let's bash America" thread just to stir the pot and big themselves up.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 31/01/2025 21:02

kattaduck · 31/01/2025 19:28

1.35 million illegal immigrant workers work in the construction industry, 45% of agricultural workers in the US are undocumented.
What do you think will happen when those workers are gone? Those workers also sustain the jobs around them. Those workers also have no health insurance and no recorse against exploitative working conditions.
Do you honestly think Americans will start working in the fields picking oranges?

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So you think that unfettered human trafficking and fentanyl pouring into the US, not to mention terrorists, rapists and murderers is worth a new house or some crops picked?

I don’t.

If those sectors suffer from lack of workers and a good solution is immigration then I’d expect the government to adjust the number of immigrants from southern countries and streamline the process to enter legally.

SailorSerena · 31/01/2025 21:04

Hoardasurass · 31/01/2025 12:49

Please note I said before 14 days.
I don't know why my auto correct added a s to sperm (did it in this post too but I caught it this time) and oops with my dyslexia meaning that 8 again didn't see the auto correct changing implants into implements.
Also it's not an opinion that sex is encoded at conception it's fact. I was laughing at the poster because they tried pulling me up with misinformation sex is not determined at 6 weeks as the poster I quoted claims.
Perhaps you should shine your fact-checking light on them rather than picking on my typos or is it only posters who you disagree with that you do this with

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Only with people who are picking on other posters 👍

PurpleAxe · 31/01/2025 21:06

AnonymousBleep · 31/01/2025 10:15

It's not really rising in the UK. Reform have taken votes from the Conservatives and split the right wing vote. That's how Labour won (and I say that as a Labour voter). They didn't take votes from Labour though. Britain remains a broadly centrist country, with louder (because richer) voices on the hard right.

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I disagree, and I think you might want to pay rather more attention to what is happening at home than worry about feeling superior to the US.

Glass houses and all that.

LoyalMember · 31/01/2025 21:09

snugsnug1 · 31/01/2025 15:48

If the US was a centre right country, Mitt Romney would be president.

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Not if the electorate don't like him or his policies.

Nanny0gg · 31/01/2025 21:43

username299 · 31/01/2025 14:32

I can imagine. 14 years of the Tories has decimated the country and then you have Brexit. Change is hopefully around the corner, it can't get worse.

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Yes, it can.

Were you around in the 70s?

Mytholmroyd · 31/01/2025 22:09

LifeExperience · 31/01/2025 15:58

The US is always a very terrible, horrible, no good place to be according to most MNers. The vast majority here know nothing about it, but there a few experts who spent a week at Disney once.

I'm American, and the US that I read about on here shows no resemblance to the real US. But MNers don't want to hear that.

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This is true. And I always find the idea of it being a homogeneous entity really baffling - there is so much variety especially once you get away from the tourist destinations. Somewhere for everyone.

I love going to the US on holiday, for work and to visit family. We just rent a car and drive to out of the way places. I never want to come back!

ByCyanMoose · 01/02/2025 01:39

Hoardasurass · 31/01/2025 20:38

Oliver Cromwell did kill a king and half the nobility in a civil war he fermented and then made himself Lord protector though

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That happened quite a while ago. Also, bear in mind that shortly after his death his corpse was dug up, dragged through the streets, hanged drawn and quartered. And he got off lightly; many of his fellow regicides were still quite conscious when they got to the “drawing” phase of the punishment, which despite its name does not involve arts and crafts.

So on the whole, not necessarily the example we want to be emulating.

kattaduck · 01/02/2025 02:03

saltinesandcoffeecups · 31/01/2025 21:02

So you think that unfettered human trafficking and fentanyl pouring into the US, not to mention terrorists, rapists and murderers is worth a new house or some crops picked?

I don’t.

If those sectors suffer from lack of workers and a good solution is immigration then I’d expect the government to adjust the number of immigrants from southern countries and streamline the process to enter legally.

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Well are they doing that?
Or are they closing the legal pathways that are already there? Like the U.S. refugee admissions program or the CBP one App?
Or arresting parents in schools and separating them from their children?
You know illegal immigrants are less likely to commit violent crimes? Or that more than 30% of those are families?
Or that more than two-thirds of them have lived in the US for more than a decade?
Is that really an"invasion"?

saltinesandcoffeecups · 01/02/2025 02:34

kattaduck · 01/02/2025 02:03

Well are they doing that?
Or are they closing the legal pathways that are already there? Like the U.S. refugee admissions program or the CBP one App?
Or arresting parents in schools and separating them from their children?
You know illegal immigrants are less likely to commit violent crimes? Or that more than 30% of those are families?
Or that more than two-thirds of them have lived in the US for more than a decade?
Is that really an"invasion"?

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Well, considering the current administration has been in office for checks calendar 11 days, I don’t think we know enough to say if we will have a worker shortage once we start departing illegal immigrants.

So let’s get that under control before changing any immigration quotas.

And because I can’t be assed to look up statistics at the moment on crime statistics, I’ll concede to your numbers, But will say that the crimes that illegal immigrates would commit in the US if they weren’t here would be zero, so getting them out will be an overall improvement on crime. (We won’t mention that entering the US illegally or overstaying illegally is in itself a crime).

Do you know who would be alive if a criminal illegal immigrant wasn’t in the country and had been deported? Laken Riley. Please spout your statistics to her parents.

And yes I call 2 million+ people a year entering illegally an invasion. Let’s just mull that number for a minute… there are countries with populations equal to or less than that. According to this site* that’s more than the population of England’s second biggest city.

*worldpopulationreview.com/cities/united-kingdom

saltinesandcoffeecups · 01/02/2025 02:44

And I’ll state this plain and clear so there is no misunderstanding…

I welcome unconditionally anyone that wants to be a US Citizen. Come on in, raise your family, get a job, pay your taxes, whatever you want to do. I will open my arms and hand you a beer and a hot dog on the 4th of July. But do so legally.

meh2025 · 01/02/2025 03:29

AnonymousBleep · 31/01/2025 14:33

This isn't a thread about Twitter though? Sorry you don't think I am capable of having an adult discussion about something completely unrelated to the thread topic. Have a nice day!

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As you know, you said that Farage didn't deserve a platform and said the BBC should not have been "platforming" him, by which you meant that only the approved news you think is acceptable should be on the BBC.

In response I explained to you accurately that the BBC is not the main source of news for people now, Twitter is. And that Farage has 2.2 million followers on Twitter, which is where he has found a major plaform.

I then added stats to back that up because I knew you would automatically loathe Twitter because it is uncensored and if you hate Trump you would automatically hate Musk.

The REASON I MENTIONED TWITTER was that you incorrectly thought that the BBC is a source of news for most people. I was correcting you on that.

You also didn't explain what you meant by Farage not deserving a platform. Do you not believe in free speech?

SecretWitch · 01/02/2025 03:32

Im incredibly sad for we sane Americans who voted for Kamala. I hate waking up in the morning to see what new inane proclamation our fearless Dickhead in Charge has uttered.

meh2025 · 01/02/2025 03:36

SecretWitch · 01/02/2025 03:32

Im incredibly sad for we sane Americans who voted for Kamala. I hate waking up in the morning to see what new inane proclamation our fearless Dickhead in Charge has uttered.

Is implying that 77 million of your fellow Americans are insane for thinking differently to you helpful do you think?

Momtotwokids · 01/02/2025 03:37

I live in the US and didn't vote for either candidate. Trump might be a moron but Biden and Harris would have destroyed our country. I really don't believe Biden was running the country this past or longer. Don't worry about us, we will survive and hopefully two intelligent candidates will run in 4 years.

meh2025 · 01/02/2025 03:47

Momtotwokids · 01/02/2025 03:37

I live in the US and didn't vote for either candidate. Trump might be a moron but Biden and Harris would have destroyed our country. I really don't believe Biden was running the country this past or longer. Don't worry about us, we will survive and hopefully two intelligent candidates will run in 4 years.

Trump is, rather inescapably, a bit of a wild card, impulsive and rather narcissistic. Also, his comments about women, although long long ago, are certainly unacceptable and concerning.

And although he definitely has not tried to stop abortion in the USA, and has stated he is happy to allow the states to run things, I do wonder if he will change his mind. His comments on abortion sound a lot like a dog whistle to those who want no abortions, rather like he is winking at them and saying "I get it, but my hands are tied". This concerns me, I just hope he sticks to his promise to leave it up to the states, as for the moment only 13 states have banned abortion for all but serious medical reasons and the other 37 still allow abortion.

But he's doing what he said he would do, and what the people voted for, which I do appreciate. Politicians should work for the people, not just arbitrarly impose rules, taxes etc that nobody agreed to, or take things away from people in the country that nobody agreed to. If you're going to make sweeping changes, it is right and ethical to declare them first before election, and nobody can accuse Trump of not doing that.

What about JD Vance? He seems far brighter than Trump, do you think he would make a good president?

meh2025 · 01/02/2025 04:09

meh2025 · 01/02/2025 03:47

Trump is, rather inescapably, a bit of a wild card, impulsive and rather narcissistic. Also, his comments about women, although long long ago, are certainly unacceptable and concerning.

And although he definitely has not tried to stop abortion in the USA, and has stated he is happy to allow the states to run things, I do wonder if he will change his mind. His comments on abortion sound a lot like a dog whistle to those who want no abortions, rather like he is winking at them and saying "I get it, but my hands are tied". This concerns me, I just hope he sticks to his promise to leave it up to the states, as for the moment only 13 states have banned abortion for all but serious medical reasons and the other 37 still allow abortion.

But he's doing what he said he would do, and what the people voted for, which I do appreciate. Politicians should work for the people, not just arbitrarly impose rules, taxes etc that nobody agreed to, or take things away from people in the country that nobody agreed to. If you're going to make sweeping changes, it is right and ethical to declare them first before election, and nobody can accuse Trump of not doing that.

What about JD Vance? He seems far brighter than Trump, do you think he would make a good president?

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And to be clear, he has kept all his election promises to date and has done nothing at all to show that he might be planning to break this promise. I guess I just worry about it because it is such a big deal.