To think DH/in laws springing meal on you is unfair?

[OpalAnt]

Interested to hear people’s thoughts on this scenario.

Attended a conflict resolution/having difficult conversations workshop the other day at work, as I have recently started a more managerial role (I work in healthcare). It was quite interesting overall, exploring different behaviour types: the aggressive ‘bulldozer’, the submissive ‘doormat’ , the passive-aggressive ‘sniper’, and the healthiest way to handle these situations is with assertive behaviour. However one aspect of it didn’t quite sit right with me.

The scenario given (think in context of NHS hospital) was…

You’ve had a horrific day at work, so busy you’ve had no lunch break, headache, trains are delayed/stuck in traffic en route home. All you want to do is get home and crash out before your next shift tomorrow morning. You get through the door, and your DH says, ‘finally you’re home, get ready, my parents are going to take us out for a meal.’ 😳

The trainers’ reasoning was because your relationship with DH is high value and your own want (to go home and relax) is low value, i.e. you could suck it up (???), is that the smoothest way (and presumably what they were insinuating was that it was the BEST way) to deal with it, should go along to the meal because you value your relationship with your DH/in laws, and you don’t absolutely need to rest.

A couple of us pointed out that actually, isn’t that passive/doormat behaviour? We suggested an assertive but polite way to deal with the situation would be to say ‘sounds nice but I’ve had a horrendous day and just need to unwind. You go to the meal and enjoy your time with your parents, but I’ll be sitting this one out. Also, it’s not really fair to spring this on me when I’m already late home and you could have text to ask me at any point in the day, if this was ok with me?’

Trainer seemed a bit dumbfounded and said that responding with ‘it’s not fair’ is bulldozer behaviour! But why would DH and in laws needs be more important than mine? Isn’t it important to protect your own wellbeing and boundaries, and isn’t it somewhat disrespectful of them not to check in with you first?

What does everyone think? (I was thinking about it afterwards and realised I am probably biased as I don’t really have any kind of relationship with my in laws and pulling this sort of shit on a really inconvenient day sounds like something they would do lol- I probably would go along to the meal if I actually liked them 🤣)

With all the discussion about nuances and different relationship with in laws, complexities etc, I really like that you’ve spelled it out so simply. This is what it really boils down to for me.

As the role is health care I would have thought that from a patient safety perspective you would need a quiet evening to recharge rather than a night out.

I wonder if people's reactions depend on whether they are introvert or extrovert - an extrovert would regain energy by having a lovely meal out and socialising with (presumably) supportive family members, whilst for an introvert it is a further drain on depleted reserves.

I agree with you OP, its neither here nor there that some posters would be ok with this, its absolutely not the RIGHT answer to put your husbands want of a meal out (he couldn't even text about) over your need for rest.

Maybe the conflict resolution instructor could consider the husband at least speaking to his wife and finding out why she is late home before demanding she gets ready, as its a 'high value" relationship for him!

I suspect people saying they'd just go out are all extrovert and therefore actually gain energy from socialising. Whereas introverts tend to recharge batteries alone and being flat out the idea of a people based activity is horrid.

The trainer has completely ignored the introvert/extrovert dimension. Obviously after a day like this you'd need to recharge. Introverts do that by taking time out and extroverts do it by engaging with the outside world. Your DH should be well aware which of those applies to you. If he's arranged a night out knowing you need it that's not much of a conflict situation in the first place. If he's done it when he could reasonably have expected you'd want to retreat to a hot bath with a drink that's completely different.

Ah, think I can now see why a female partner not going along with her male partner's plans was so unacceptable. Lessons in patriarchy, ladies? Join in, you all know the words!

I actually think you really need context for this as others have said. And it's a bit like watching Home Alone or some other film where the existence of mobile phones has now made the plot pointless. A message would obviously have made a crucial difference.

I would say take what was useful from the session, and take the rest with a pinch of salt. You sound like a sensible manager.

As a senior manager and a tax payer, I say what a waste of public money and if this how the NHS is spending our money, it absolutely deserves to be taken apart brick by brick and soul by soul.

@OpalAnt I'd say, if someone likes the idea of going out, they go. If they don't, they don't. Please evaluate what you got from that training and draw it constructively to senior management, focusing on the lack of return on investment.

After a crap day I'd be absolutely delighted at the thought I didn't have to cook or think about anything. I could just relax enjoy a nice meal out without the washing up brilliant

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. For me it would depend on a few things.

Firstly, it would depend on my relationship with my in-laws. If they're part of my inner circle of people I can relax and be myself around, then fine. Give me ten minutes to sort myself out and I'll be there. But if they're people I see less frequently, and I feel I have to be on my best behaviour around them, I'd sooner my spouse went without me.

Secondly, just how bad am I feeling? I have a headache, but is it a mild-ish tension headache that will vanish once I relax a bit with loved ones (assuming PILs are in that category)? Or a splitting need-to-lie-down-in-a-darkened-room job?

Also, where is the meal? Is it a casual local bistro I can get to in ten minutes, have a quick steak-frites and be home for an early night? Or is it in the city half an hour away, where everyone will order three courses and I'll be propping my eyelids open with matchsticks desperate for my much-needed sleep?

I'd simply say sorry I'm just too exhausted, please go ahead and have a great evening and explain to in laws I'd love to see them when I have more energy.

No need to go into "it's not fair" as I'm sure they meant well (unless it's a frequent occurrence, in which case have a conversation when you're less tired).

The weirdest thing for me about this scenario is describing your need for rest as 'low value'. Why is this low value?

Whether someone would go to this imaginary meal or not completely depends on so many things, so i don't think there's a right or wrong answer. But I do think prioritising your own needs sometimes is essential.

Thankfully this isn't something my husband would do, and my (genuinely lovely) in laws don't live anywhere near us. So not a scenario I'm ever likely to come up against 🤣

I think it’s a stupid scenario and makes the trainer look a bit thick.
Who would not posses a mobile phone in this instance or any means of communication? Everyone can spend 10 seconds messaging their oh and asking them if this is ok.
We are not talking about two retired 95 year olds here.
Of course working in a hospital you are not going to go straight out in your workwear without showering, putting on clean clothes, maybe washing and drying your hair etc etc.
Having said that then it would be a nice idea, but in the workers situation preferring not to go is fine.
It’s also fine to put your own wants/desires/needs above everyone else’s.
This trainer sounds more like a relationship coach, trying to get couples on the verge of breakdown to appreciate each other.

Have we gone back to the 1950s where the wife must be submissive and do what her husband wants or the 'marriage won't last very long'? Why on earth was a work trainer using home scenarios that they know nothing about to illustrate work training? The training sounds pretty shit to me. If it was an abusive marriage the springing the dinner by the husband and in laws could have been bulldozing behaviour. The trainer should have used the hypothetical situations to encourage discussion but not to try and insist on a right answer when no actual context is known.

“…now imagine it’s not your DH but it’s your manager and they’ve asked you to come in for a double shift. Remember you don’t really need rest, the hospitals needs are greater than yours. Right…”

Very scathing responses to the idea of managers having any training. As a Civil Servant I can confirm that management training over the decades has improved enormously and reduced the ability of bullying types to operate without consequence.

Our ‘difficult conversations’ training is e-learning so low cost. It has been helpful for the less confident managers to give them basic tools for confronting difficult behaviour: stick to the facts, give time to respond, be clear about consequences etc.

I think some people just hate public servants so much on principle they hate the idea of investing any development and non operational time on them. It’s not as if we get fancy offices or free coffee or a Christmas bonus. Ridiculous to think managers shouldn’t have training either.

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I work in the public sector and every single trainer I’ve come across has been totally useless.
A waste of time and money.
I hope they gave you an evaluation sheet and you put down how useless they were. The last few training sessions I’ve attended have stopped handing them out, wonder why 😂

You are right, you come home and say NICELY - oh, what a lovely idea, but I am so tired, I literally can't muster any energy/strength tonight, but you go. And if the husband is nice, he would say 'I shall tell my parents'. And if the parents are nice, they would say 'absolutely no problem, but we would still love to take you two out, which day should we go?' And you go when it suits everyone.

The nuances don’t actually matter. Ie, One person saying they would love to go out after work was not the scenario given here. The scenario is person A preferring to rest and being guilted out of it and told to suck it up. Doesn’t matter the relationships or the reasons, person B is essentially convincing Person A to put their own needs aside, purely for the benefit of themselves/further outside parties (in this example, in laws). The wife would only be ‘bulldozing’ if she insisted the husband also not attend the dinner and perhaps some other demands too.

I dunno, I think I’d easily believe the person giving this example had some misogyny. Wives must put themselves aside for their husbands and in-laws and if they don’t they are bulldozing? Bulldozing by… insisting they rest after a hard day working in a hospital!? Eeeeeesh.

How is it bulldozing to assert some self care? The training is floored and designed to turn everyone into “yes” people . Eventually everyone burns out and goes off sick - stupid.

I think it depends on how you recharge your batteries. Some do this with other people, some on their own. I think it’s ok to put your needs first on this occasion, whichever way you feel.

should go along to the meal because you value your relationship with your DH/in laws

A huge assumption there about the in-laws (trainer obviously not a Mumsnetter 😃)

Seriously, regarding the DH, more context would be needed - is there general give-and-take in the relationship, or is it always you having to 'suck it up' while he does what he likes?

It was a daft scenario for the trainer to pick given that family situations are so nuanced and what might be the fair, adult thing to do in one marriage would be 'doormat' behaviour in another, and 'bulldozer' behaviour in yet another!

I'll be honest, if I came home to someone offering to treat me to a meal out, I'd be fine!
Assuming no young kids to see to, I'd be pleased to unwind over a meal and glass of wine.

It’s a scenario to spark discussion because any answer could be potentially the right answer

They light the touch paper by saying the partner is more important than the working person
which would piss off the room full of working people it’s deliberately inflammatory to spark discussion . like the comment about bad stressful days at work in the NHS are for worse than bad days at work for non NHS people that ultimately piss off the rest of us not working for the NHS we too have horrendous days at work

whoever gets there own way is the bulldozer and whoever backs down is passive irrespective who it is

Agree it should be personal choice.

However, I'm surprised that an NHS trainer is advising going out when you're knackered. It would worry me about the potential for mistakes if my healthcare professional had ignored their own body and gone on a night out when they were already exhausted and then likely come in the next day still exhausted before even starting a heavy shift.