To think DH/in laws springing meal on you is unfair?

[OpalAnt]

Interested to hear people’s thoughts on this scenario.

Attended a conflict resolution/having difficult conversations workshop the other day at work, as I have recently started a more managerial role (I work in healthcare). It was quite interesting overall, exploring different behaviour types: the aggressive ‘bulldozer’, the submissive ‘doormat’ , the passive-aggressive ‘sniper’, and the healthiest way to handle these situations is with assertive behaviour. However one aspect of it didn’t quite sit right with me.

The scenario given (think in context of NHS hospital) was…

You’ve had a horrific day at work, so busy you’ve had no lunch break, headache, trains are delayed/stuck in traffic en route home. All you want to do is get home and crash out before your next shift tomorrow morning. You get through the door, and your DH says, ‘finally you’re home, get ready, my parents are going to take us out for a meal.’ 😳

The trainers’ reasoning was because your relationship with DH is high value and your own want (to go home and relax) is low value, i.e. you could suck it up (???), is that the smoothest way (and presumably what they were insinuating was that it was the BEST way) to deal with it, should go along to the meal because you value your relationship with your DH/in laws, and you don’t absolutely need to rest.

A couple of us pointed out that actually, isn’t that passive/doormat behaviour? We suggested an assertive but polite way to deal with the situation would be to say ‘sounds nice but I’ve had a horrendous day and just need to unwind. You go to the meal and enjoy your time with your parents, but I’ll be sitting this one out. Also, it’s not really fair to spring this on me when I’m already late home and you could have text to ask me at any point in the day, if this was ok with me?’

Trainer seemed a bit dumbfounded and said that responding with ‘it’s not fair’ is bulldozer behaviour! But why would DH and in laws needs be more important than mine? Isn’t it important to protect your own wellbeing and boundaries, and isn’t it somewhat disrespectful of them not to check in with you first?

What does everyone think? (I was thinking about it afterwards and realised I am probably biased as I don’t really have any kind of relationship with my in laws and pulling this sort of shit on a really inconvenient day sounds like something they would do lol- I probably would go along to the meal if I actually liked them 🤣)

I hate things like this. They miss out nuance. Also trainers just think they’re right because they’ve got the answer book. Its not a science, it’s subjective.

I don’t think I’d be cut out for an NHS job because (1) I hate this type of patronising bullshit training (2) the training wouldn’t apply to me because the minute anyone tries to tell me what to do, including my DH, there will be conflict which no amount of patronising bullshit training could resolve.

Is sticking these ridiculously simplistic labels on behaviour any different from calling women Karens?

I can’t see how how your own wants and needs are less than someone else’s.

Especially when the husband could and should have asked his wife if she even wanted to go before agreeing to the dinner.

The husband should not be dictating to his wife what she is doing.

Hi OP,

I think the thing that's being overlooked here is that you shouldn't have to have a horrific day at work. If the NHS wasn't such a mess, then you should have adequate staffing and horrific days wouldn't happen.

I think the course trainer's approach is a bit bonkers. If you want to skip a dinner than that is your choice and your husband wouldn't mind at all.

I volunteer in the NHS and a lot of the culture seems just enormously toxic. I'm sorry about all the weird responses you've had on the thread. I only read the first full page, but tbh I think you should ignore them all and follow your own good sense. You sounds as though you have it all right and the trainer is a bit batty.

Thinking about my nurse friend, when he’s had a bad day, the priority is to decompress and rest as much as possible before his next shift.

This makes is very difficult for relationships and friendships as him being on top form for work is so important.

I have so much respect for medical staff and the price that they pay for doing their day (or night) job.

missing point entirely. Who doesn't want to go out after a shitty day. Go, forget about your day and enjoy!

I think the difference between “all you want to do is go home and crash out” and "you're really looking forward to going home and chilling out" is the key here, and would determine most people's responses.

Long day + nightmare journey home = NEED some proper down time? don't go out

Long day + nightmare journey home = I'm tired and glad it's over but actually, a meal out in good company also sounds pretty nice? go out

That's where the trainer went wrong, she laid it on thick about how knackered the person was in this scenario, but those feelings must be put aside for her 'high value' DH... That isn't conflict resolution, it's a recipe for storing up resentment long term which eventually leads to massive conflict when you inevitably explode...

It sounds like badly thought through training materials that don't take into account different needs and personalities. Some people find social relaxation in good company to be edifying and bouyant whereas others find it draining and even when it's enjoyable that enjoyment is bought at a cost that is sometimes unaffordable. It also doesn't take into account that some inlaws are a fucking nightmare. It's a bad example to use for training.

It would be better to use an example of having planned to spend your saturday running a couple of errands and doing a bit of DIY but a surprise lunch is sprung on you - something where the plans being shelved are much more clearly able to be dismissed and aren't a legitimate need.

Enforcing plans on someone without respecting their right to object or consent is definitely bulldozer and acquiescing without asserting your own (incompatible) needs is doormat.

OT but I laughed at the idea that a really bad day means no lunch……hahahahaha. The people designing this don’t have any clinical roles do they.

You could argue that him asking and ‘assuming’ you would go to the meal was bulldozer behaviour, putting you in a position that makes him and the in-laws plans a priority. There’s many potential ways to look at this scenario, it’s not that black and white as everyone will relate so differently (family dynamics are different for us all) so it’s hard to use it as an example. Personally, if I’m tired and feel I need a rest to recover after my horrific day, I’m having a rest and doing exactly that and I would expect my husband to understand and respect my decision (just as I would if it was the other way around) because rest IS important, a meal out is not essential, it’s social/for pleasure. I wouldn’t say to him “it’s unfair” for him to spring it on me though, because sometimes it just happens like that. It’s actually not an unreasonable invitation, it’s a nice gesture and I would appreciate the offer and make that very clear, but it’s still a very sorry “no babe, I can’t, I’m exhausted but you go. Give them my love, tell them I’m sorry, I’ve had a bad day and we will have to arrange another night soon so I’m able to come” it’s not submissive doormat behaviour, it’s not bulldozer behaviour, it’s just advocating for yourself in a polite assertive way. Going with him is definitely doormat behaviour because you put your own needs on a back burner for him (because his needs are higher value?! Insane that they even imply this! It’s just a meal out, it’s not like it’s a birthday or special event which does hold some importance, no it absolutely isn’t a higher value, and I will die on this hill 😂)

Not what you asked but I think work place training should stick to work place scenarios. There are too many variables in people’s private lives for a set example to apply to a whole group. Not to mention that how staff navigate their personal lives is none of their business.

If PILs had a habit of ambushing me I would say I had other plans and DH should be alone. If it was meant to be a nice surprise I would say what a lovely idea but (see above).

I loathe these badly conceived training courses delivered by uncomprehending trainers who bash through their list of hypotheticals and get batey when confronted with the realities of the people actually doing the jobs. The waste of money and time!

The only advantage they have is that everyone on the team bonds over how shit they are...

Another trianer reading out of one of their text books trying to categorize people (bulldozer?). Why oh why do they think they need do it?

Probably never been in any real world situation..

Had a trainer who tried to "categorize" one of my staff as "passive aggressive" without really getting to know him but just thought he was being clever, ignored the trainer's "assessment" (thanks but no thanks)..the staff member did not like being in the limelight but got on with his job which he was very good at.

I think this type of training explains why there is so much bullshit at work!

The trainer was a man, I assume?

Even if it was planned, I'd probably cancel if I really didn't feel up for it. Who wants a sad sack moping around at an expensive meal out???

I have had a perspective change over the last couple of years, I prioritise myself and my daughter above everything. I'm not a selfish person, but if my reserves are too low, I wouldn't waste them on meals out/work etc. Just knowing that what I'm missing isn't all the important actually takes away a lot of the stress of going. I even said to a colleague yesterday that it's only work and he needs to make sure he is firing on enough cylinders for his work to be effective. Not that the ball can be dropped at work, but just stuff like not doing overtime if you're tired, not overcommitting yourself so you can get enough rest.

Thus would be my take on it

I don't understand why the trainer thinks saying no is such a big deal.
In this hypothetical situation surely the
husband also values his relationship with his wife, and if his wife says she's not up to it, that's ok with him.

I haven't done conflict resolution but if I'd had a crap day at work, an awful commute and pounding headache, I'd say "Look I feel awful, I need to go to bed and sleep it off but you all go and have a lovely time." and then pack them out of the door.

No point in going out, ruining their evening and making yourself poorly.

IMO, your trainer is way off.

These management 'trainers' spout quite a lot of bullshit. 30-odd years of various courses, and I have have seen 'storming, forming and norming', Johari Windows, 5 Whys, decision trees, personality tests of every size, shape and content, and techniques that are supposed to make one the leader of the world.

Basically, management is common sense.

The answer to the scenario you gave the trainer gave was exactly the right one. Trying to then fit your response into a label was his mistake, and very patronising.
A punch in the mouth is a management technique (No, I jest, but these idiots get on my nerves!)

I think it's poor behaviour to spring something like this on anyone. The husband should respect his wife enough to at least ask or give some notice and the dh shouldn't feel like she's disrespecting
their marriage if she says no.
I agree with you op.

As a former NHS employee I agree there is no correct answer as everyone’s situation/personality and relationships are personally are different. The trainer is making huge assumptions about this when the “correct” answer is given.
There is so much bullshit “management” training in the NHS, none of it evidence based and all of it delivered by trainers with no idea of clinical pressures. Seems to go in fashions according to which management consultants the NHS have paid millions to in that particular year.

I'm curious: what was the distribution of men and women in the session?

I'd think the DH in this scenario was a dickhead for not texting earlier in the day. Would anyone in real life do that to their wife?

And I'm with you OP. You have to have boundaries and not just put everyone else's needs before your own.