To think that wolf whistling wasn't such a bad thing?

[NovemberMorn]

Joanna Lumley has just given an interview in which she says..."I never minded wolf whistling, I always thought it was tremendous".

She also said... "I think we were a little bit tougher then. Somebody put their hand on your leg, you didn’t feel affronted and report it. You’d give them a slap.”

Do you think she is right?

I hate it. In the majority of cases, it is only fun for the men and certainly isn't harmless.

It isn't acceptable. There's no need for men to do it, especially when they should be working which is often when it happens.

I've never, ever seen a man whistle at kids and I live in an area surrounded by schools with secondary kids always walking around the area. I don't think you're all lying but I personally have never experienced nor observed this happening. There are two separate issues here :adult men whistling at an adult woman isn't an issue but adult men whistling at "kids"=paedophile is a separate, serious issue. See the difference?

I have worked in busy city centre bars on a Friday night, so Yes, it's very possible to get a bar worker/manager/bouncers attention.

I did find power in lots of other things too when I was younger. My brain. My guts. My self belief.
Why was the power all with them? If I didn't mind it, never responded, walked on by head up? Honestly, why was the power in that social situation with them, and not with me? I'm really curious to know what you think?

I'm only speaking of how I feel, and like I said it seems I'm in a minority. I'd happily forgo the tiny bit of power I felt so that others wouldn't have to feel disempowered by it. Like I said, I dont miss it.

A cat call is not a sexual assault or a rape. Like many others I've been a victim of this. I know the difference. To suggest a wolf whistle is akin is really quite offensive.

To me, and wolf whistle was- you look good. It was not- I'm going to rape you.

I don't feel I've made any assumptions. I'm merely sharing my experience.

Back in the day when it was legal to rape your wife you mean? I’m sure that men had such a respectful view of women back then.

That law wasn’t changed until 1991.

I know my definition, I guess you would actually have to ask JL hers, to be clear.

Just because she didn't mind it, doesn't mean the rest of us have to be okay with it. It is done as intimidation. If she didn't feel intimidated, good for her, but that just makes me feel that she in incredibly naive, because it is intended as intimidation. This is evident by the fact that men won't do it when they are alone and they always do it to women (and girls) with the least life experience and who probably wouldn't dare talk back to them.

I have never seen or heard of Kids being whistled at either.
But like you have said, if posters here said it happened to them, I believe them.

I was in primary school uniform the first time I remember being wolf whistled with a torrent of suggestive comments. I was having a skipping competition with my best friend so we had gone ahead of our mums. Very obviously young children with hair clips and pigtails and obviously the skipping. I didn’t understand (it just felt like being shouted at) but our mothers soon caught up and told the men how disgraceful they were.

I don’t think it taught me to “handle myself”but it did make me self conscious and nervous around men for quite a while. I’ve never enjoyed it and I certainly never found being groped flattering.

@Bbq1

I've never, ever seen a man whistle at kids and I live in an area surrounded by schools with secondary kids always walking around the area. I don't think you're all lying but I personally have never experienced nor observed this happening. There are two separate issues here :adult men whistling at an adult woman isn't an issue but adult men whistling at "kids"=paedophile is a separate, serious issue. See the difference?

Glad you don't think we are lying.

You really think that the men who whistle at girls in their school uniforms are completely different from the men who whistle at adult women?

You don't see that the two both contribute to a culture in which males feel entitled to comment on female bodies? Where men are emboldened by other men audibly and openly drawing attention to female bodies?

You can't connect the dots between the two?

A small minority of 'men' will always rape, be it their wives, partners, or a woman who is vulnerable, I don't think the fact that it was legal (wives) or not, would deter them, do you?

But that's not the definition of wolf whistling...it was usually builders on a building site up high.
They were bored...it was merely a type of banter. One walked on maybe feeling a bit chuffed (whilst knowing that they'd do the same to the next young woman).
I never experienced lewd comments

It showed how society viewed women at the time though. Wolf whistling was part of that, a lack of respect for women as people, just bodies to whistle at and legally rape if you were married to them.

Are you actually that dense that you believe this? Horrendous violence towards women has been happening for centuries. The difference these days is that, in the UK at least, women have the ability to speak up and be heard and are legally protected from abuse and harassment by men. In the 70s that didn’t exist, women were still raped and abused back then, they were magically able to defend themselves, they just suffered in silence. Women aren’t incapable of defending themselves these days, but why deal with someone sexually harassing or assaulting you by brushing it off or having them thrown out of somewhere when they can, and should, be prosecuted.

I know the legal system still isn’t perfect and doesn’t always lead to a conviction but the point is women can go and report an assault these days without being basically cheer up love, at least he fancied you.

Men don't do it whilst alone, are you joking? They are the ones who women should be wary of. Then and now.

The builders who whistled from the scaffolding were different, obviously a nuisance to many, but hardly dangerous.

Women aren't there to be men's entertainment because they are ''bored''.

You can't see where a culture of acceptance, and "it's just what men do, we need to learn to tolerate them" gets you.
Wolf whistling at young women - acceptable because the intention is complimentary (affording to you, apparently)
A stranger putting his hand on your leg - bothersome but still not a man's fault, you just need to hone your slapping
Cat calling/ leering at children - wrong, but surely doesn't happen often
Sexual assault - generally wrong, but some women provoke it

All of these acts arise from the same root belief - that men are entitled to say and do what they want to a woman's body. You can protest and say, "but it made me feel pretty" all you like - it is a spectrum of male entitlement to women's bodies. Whether or not you think that should continue is up to you, but you are in a minority

No, but at least now a woman has the legal right to go and report it and he can be prosecuted. Back in those good old days society didn’t give a shit.

@aliceinawonderland

But that's not the definition of wolf whistling...it was usually builders on a building site up high.

Here's the definition of wolf whistling.

If you'd been in your late teens / early 20s and the wolf whistle was from a group of men in their 30s / 40s you were walking past in the street (on the same level as you, not on a roof etc) would you have felt flattered or intimidated?

Wolf whistling isn't a compliment. It amounts to expressing the sentiment that "you are sexually attractive to me". I am not interested in pandering to the sexual appetites of men with my appearance, and so being informed that I am sexually attractive to a strange man is not a positive experience for me.

Moreover, the normalising of wolf whistling serves to remind both men and women that male sexual preferences set the standards for beauty and desirability for women in our society. This reminder doesn't make me feel flattered, it makes me feel rage. How dare these men presume that I myself judge my own appearance by their sexual appetites? How dare they inflict their sexuality and their sex drive onto me, a person going about my life, just because I happen to be a woman and they happen to be a man? It's fucking bullshit. I want to exist in the world without men feeling entitled to declare that I am "fuckable" to them. I don't care if I am, I am affronted at the idea that I would care, and the entire premise is but another form of female oppression. Fuck that for a game of soldiers.

You are missing my point.

I slapped the guy, which caused it to escalate and I came off worse.

I don't need to divulge what happened next or whether I reported, it is not relevant to either yours and J L assumptions that women should be able to handle themselves. She and you proudly say that women should be able to handle themselves by slapping pesky men. In reality that is terrible advice. As I have said, I can only assume both you and J L get your ideas from 1950's or 70's movies. Like when James Bond comes on to the female leads, even though they are saying no. The women slap Bond and he backs down.
In he real world advising women to slap a guy for assaulting you (or putting his unwanted hand on you leg (knee)) could be the worst advice anyone could give. My experience backs that up.

And do you think women/girls are viewed differently today.
Thousands can be groomed and raped and disbelieved when they have the courage to speak out....we have come so far in the last 30 years.🙄

What if it was a large group of builders whistling and leering at 10-12 year old schoolboys because they were bored?

Maybe shouting "sexy" at them when they come out of football club, after all, they are wearing shorts.

Is that OK too?

The builders who whistled from the scaffolding were different, obviously a nuisance to many, but hardly dangerous.

How would you know?

I don’t think I ever told anyone at the time to be fair, I was embarrassed and ashamed.