To think that wolf whistling wasn't such a bad thing?

[NovemberMorn]

Joanna Lumley has just given an interview in which she says..."I never minded wolf whistling, I always thought it was tremendous".

She also said... "I think we were a little bit tougher then. Somebody put their hand on your leg, you didn’t feel affronted and report it. You’d give them a slap.”

Do you think she is right?

It's yet another way in which men get the impression that they can comment on women's appearances unchallenged.

If every man on every building site said they thought it was pathetic, it would be stamped out overnight.

Banning it strengthens the resolve of the 'you can't say anything' brigade.

Ok, love. You don't know as you haven't met me but hey, you think what you like. I'll think what I like.

Any female aged between the onset of puberty and about 25. Being attractive is nothing to do with it. Clothing perhaps is - school uniform or t shirts and shorts would be enough though didn't need to be anything more

It's sexual harassment plain and simple.

If it happens only ones, it's just annoying, but men typically do this shit when they are in groups and then it becomes quite intimidating. Especially if you tell them you don't appreciate it.

For the record, I haven't been on the receiving end of this behavior since becoming an adult. I did, however, have to deal with it plenty of times as of age ten. How is it okay to harass a child?

@aliceinawonderland

It was just a bit of flirtatious fun and they were usually on a roof in broad daylight so never threatening! Totally different from actual sexual harassment.

Hopefully even you agree that wolf whistling at girls under 18 is wrong. So let's take another example.

A group of men in their 30s / 40s / 50s on a rooftop, whistling at an 18/19 year old girl minding her own business walking past alone.

You honestly consider that to be 'flirtatious fun'?

Yes but I don't know if there is sexual attraction as the main motivation or if it's about power. Making someone feel uncomfortable. Like rape is about power in most cases - not uncontrollable lust

According to you in you earlier posts I should have handled it myself. Isn't that what you have been saying?

It isn't, and I don't think that was what JL meant.
She was talking of her own personal view of when SHE was whistled at.

I really don't think any woman who grew up in those times thought it was OK to whistle after children.

@NovemberMorn

I wonder what your views are on the horrendous violence that happens to women in this modern world. It seems to me that both online and off, women are disrespected, abused, and generally seen as 'less', than they ever were 20 or 30 years ago. Wolf whistling was very mild in comparison.

I'm lost as to what point you're making here?

Because women are subject to abhorrent violence nowadays, we shouldn't see wolf whistling as something inherently wrong and indicative of mens feelings of entitlement (whether consciously or subconsciously) to women's bodies?

You don't think that this is all interconnected?

That wolf whistling in the past is on no way relevant to the treatment of women and girls today?

When I was a young woman, there were nude girlie calendars in garages

Also, do you remember that pubs sold peanut packets from large pieces of card that were displayed behind the bar. Each time a packet was sold it revealed more of the picture of a topless woman on the card.
When I first started drinking in pubs, some did not allow women at the bar and would not sell them pints.

Utterly pervasive second-class treatment.

Is it better today, though? We are nominally equal in pubs, the girlie pics are absent, but in many pubs women can't leave drinks unattended for fear of spiking. They may also be literally spiked with a needle. Rape convictions are devastatingly low, men are hooked on extreme porn and expect women to play it out IRL.

On balance, it seems scarier now. A few years ago I felt relatively optimistic, but these days so many advances just seem to reflect the fact that men are better at hiding how much hatred and contempt they have for women.

Honestly I think the people who were flattered at being whistled at because they think it was down to their superior attractiveness are completely deluded.
I’m bang average and got whistled at loads.

It is actually is acceptable and will remain so so long as people continue to enable and minimise sexual harrasment.

Alert staff in a bar? Have you been in a city bar on a Friday night? It would be pretty difficult to get anyone's attention - then shout across the noisy bar explaining what has happened - then what do you expect them to do?

Some (in the minority)women enjoy and need that validation. Fair enough. Maybe they could wear some kind of badge to let men know that they're fair game and enjoy that kind of attention? Or just put a spring in their step, strut around and give come hither looks. Or maybe just suck it up and get that validation someplace else.

That way women and GIRLS (some still in primary) can get on with their day without being subjected to sexual harassment.

A hand on the leg, in my case it was a knee...is very different to .."he swiftly put his hand up my skirt on the inside of my leg to my groin."
That is sexual assault.

Yes I do think it’s flirtatious fun. I was only wolf whistled from the age of about 18 so certainly in my neck of the woods everyone played by the “rules”.

I never came across it with 10 year olds

Why couldn't you find power from something else when you were younger? Why only now you are older you? The power was all theirs not yours. Can't you see that. Why get flattered by men who don't know you heckling young teenagers? Odd.

1 in 4 women will be sexually assaulted or raped in their life time.

How do you square that with your assumptions.

No, I'm out. This is a creep-fest.

Absolute rubbish.

Ah fab, you had a better class of letch there.

If they weren't on the roof top but close to you and the same group of grown men, in a pack, started heckling lewd comments at you a few yards away would you think that was flirtatious fun? I bet you would feel intimidated.
Be honest with yourself and ask yourself why.

@aliceinawonderland

Yes I do think it’s flirtatious fun.

For the girl minding her own business walking past the men wolf whistling at her in a group? Flirtatious fun for her? Or just for the blokes?

I was only wolf whistled from the age of about 18 so certainly in my neck of the woods everyone played by the “rules”.

I never came across it with 10 year olds

Lucky you. Many of us on this thread have shared that we were routinely wolf whistled by adult men as children. More than one of us have separately explained that we had to change our route to and from school because of it happening to us at 12/13 years of age.

Now that you now it does happen to children, what are your thoughts?

My god daughter is 11 and it's already happened to her multiple times in the last year. She's tall but she doesn't look anywhere near 16 let alone 18.

If they weren't on the roof top but close to you and the same group of grown men, in a pack, started heckling lewd comments at you a few yards away would you think that was flirtatious fun? I bet you would feel intimidated.

This is a good question and I'm interested in @aliceinawonderland's answer.

And whether if their daughter called them during a walk and explained the above was happening and it scared them, they'd tell them "don't be silly, it's just flirtatious fun!"

I thought J L said we should be able to handle ourselves and just slap them if they touched our leg.

Sorry, is a grab of the outside of the thigh ok but inside thigh not ok? What are the rules in your head?

I hated it, walking past a building site by myself at 22 and a bunch of men wolf whistling every morning on the way to work on a road with no other people was intimidating.