Am I a far right extremist?

[Isitme245]

I had a conversation with my best friend of 25 years the other day and she called me a far right extremist and how my views are scary, dangerous and 'nazi coded'
I was really shocked as I didn't think any of what I said was bad. I'm not a particularly avid supporter of any political party and very much keep opinions to myself. She's very supportive of labour and anti trump and always has been. Usually when she asks me my opinions I just don't want to get into it but I did the other night and now I feel bad.

Here's the breakdown:

• she sent me an article and told me that Nigel Farage is going to ban abortion eventually if he wins an election. I read the article and pointed out he only suggested lowering the abortion cut off date to 22 weeks (not 24 as it is now). I told her it wasn't the end of the world and it's reasonable if you read his reasons. I also made the point that men shouldn't really be getting involved in abortion law but that what he said wasn't the end of the world.

• she asked me about immigration and I said that it's great but that we should be prioritising skilled immigrants and have stronger immigration laws. She also asked about asylum seekers and hotels and I said that we should have stronger laws about monitoring people and collecting documentation when people arrive.

• she sent me and asked about Elon Musk's Nazi salute and I said I didn't interpret it that way

• I said that immigrants who rape or murder should be deported.

To me this feels really reasonable and not over the top but she really attacked me for it? Now I feel really awkward and uncomfortable talking to her. Is this far right??

The majority of people in Europe are looking for their governments to take control of the borders, and enforce some security.

I can think of centre left gov who do this already, on a bi partisan basis

100% this

That's 9.3 million people who are economically inactive. But the majority are not on benefits. You can get the dataset from here https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics and it breaks down the reasons for economic inactivity on tab 11, which I have clipped for the attached image.

Out of 9.3 million:

• 2.5 million are students, who will mostly go on to be at the higher end of the workforce. They are not getting benefits — in fact they are taking out loans, and keeping lots of university teachers and admin staff in jobs with that money.
• 1.7 million are SAHM/SAHD who presumably it that way, and if they went out to work you would need someone to look after their kids.
• 1.1 million are early retired, so getting no benefits and indeed probably having enough to live on comfortably, after quite likely being higher rate taxpayers for some part of their working lives.
• 3 million are sick/disabled.
• That leaves 1 million "Other"; let's say that they are all fit to work.

So perhaps you have 3 million on disability-UC and a million on JSA-UC. Now maybe you could toughen up the assessments of disability even further than the previous government did (leading to a variety of horrific cases, from what I've read), but there are still a lot of very ill people out there who are not going to be doing a 10-hour shift in A&E or driving an HGV all day any time soon.

What the figures don't show is how many people are on benefits who also have a full-time job — which means the taxpayer is subsidising their employment. But every time the (any) government puts up the minimum wage, employers all complain and say how many jobs they're going to have to cut.

All perfectly reasonable points of view.

From the people who label those as 'far right', I'd be fascinated to see what the centre right, moderate right, centrist, moderste left, centre left and far left views would be, point by point.

While I wouldn't be at all surprised if Musk did do a Nazi salute, it would probably have been an attention-seeking act. He's obviously got several screws loose and can rarely be taken seriously on anything.

This thread has been rough and I agree with your friend so not sure if my post will be read, but you seem like you genuinely want to understand her view of what you said and see how she has interpreted it as extremist so I want to offer my perspective.

Your friend said she thinks that Farage will eventually ban abortion, and linked the article. So she is taking the article in the wider context of who Farage is, his actions and things he has said in the past. Whereas you read the article and took this specific thing he said in isolation.

This is how extremism and radicalisation works. Look what's happening in America. Abortion doesn't just get banned overnight, it happens in small steps one at a time and slowly things get more extreme. This is how people are radicalised - they will agree with something that seems perfectly reasonable and common sense, without seeing that it is a step on a path to something more extreme.

It sounds like you have said some things which in isolation feel innocent and fine, but your friend is looking at things with a broader context. Like with Musk's salute - the wider context is he has spoken at an AfD meeting, which is a far right populist German political party. He knew what he was doing. So to look at it and say you don't think it's a salute is worrying for your friend.

I don't mean to be rude but it's this kind of 'innocent' ignorance that extremists rely on. They want you to think it's all fine so they can carry on leading you down their path.

This isn't to say you are a far right extemist. But if your friend is very switched on politically then she will be hearing your comments within this wider context, and worrying that you are being led down these first steps towards right wing extremism. I hope you can understand this perspective without feeling like I'm attacking you as that's not my aim. Education and awareness is how we fight extremism.

This is a really good post

I find your post extremely concerning- unfortunately this is where we are though. Your “wider context” is basically the narrative you have been exposed to on social media etc. you have preconceived ideas of what you expect these things to be. You have been bombarded with a “musk is a Nazi” narrative do you are seeing the actions in this light.,you have preconceived ideas of Farage in that everything he says is misogynistic and/or racist therefore you will see everything he does in that light.

The scary thing is, you no doubt, wholeheartedly, believe that this is the correct objective position because you are exposed via algorithms etc to this narrative as the only acceptable version of events, this narrative is constantly reinforced for you.

what social media and the wider media are constantly doing is creating a them and us position, if someone doesn’t align with your views they are a them and fall to be the enemy. Who is the enemy to you? The far right, the far right who will have been clearly defined in the reinforced narrative you’ve been exposed to.

This is not your fault, society these days is set up to be divisive on perhaps an unprecedented scale.

The OP is not far right by any stretch of the imagination, the assertion by the friend in the context of what actually is far right is utterly ridiculous. I. Fact it’s a very dangerous narrative, reasonable centrist views are being categorised as far right. It is this sort of narrative that is growing the far right.

People need to educate themselves about how they are being manipulated, a manipulation that is about to become a million times worse with AI (and it’s the Left in this country who are pushing that gateway into mass control).

@is30tooyoungformidlifecrisis

"This isn't to say you are a far right extemist. But if your friend is very switched on politically then she will be hearing your comments within this wider context, and worrying that you are being led down these first steps towards right wing extremism. I hope you can understand this perspective without feeling like I'm attacking you as that's not my aim. Education and awareness is how we fight extremism."

I also don't agree that OP based on her views is not a "far right extremist" (still not sure about the definition of what that exactly is) but it would be fair to say OP's views are either centre right or right.

Now the premise of your post is that even expressing centre right or right wing views leaves her at risk of being further radicalised into a "far right extremist " by bad faith actors.

Now it is entirely possible that OPs views stay consistent at simply being centre right to right in the same way that anyone who voted Labour is not necessarily going to be radicalised into some extreme far left Marxist.

Ironically the biggest risk of a person becoming more radicalised from a centrist position in their political views (left or right) is when they are ostracised and heavily criticised for expressing those centrist views.

It’s scary tbh

Twitter is much worse since Elon Musk bought it. There is proper Der Sturmer stuff being posted about Jews and when reported, people are told that it doesn't break their posting guidelines.

A co-leader of AfD was fined for using a Nazi slogan.

In my opinion, the far right is on the rise and their bigoted beliefs are becoming more mainstream.

@Feelingathomenow
I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying. The media does completely try to create a 'them and us' narrative. And people definitely do need to educate themselves on manipulation tactics.

I also see how people could be in a left wing bubble because of algorithms as you say. I personally don't think I am, as I've studied extremism and media manipulation and very carefully look out for it. And am very anti AI. But for example with Musk, I don't see how someone can know that he spoke at this AfD meeting and then did this move, and not think it was a nazi salute. I don't really otherwise keep up with his shenanigans as I generally think he's just a bit of a buffoon, but starting to worry now he's getting more involved with politics.

I think everyone on both the left and the right needs to have more awareness and literacy in manipulation by media and politicians, you're right there.

If anyone is interested, Men Who Hate Women by Laura Bates is a great book about how normal men can become radicalised into extremist misogynistic groups, very interesting and very accessible writing.

You see I think Misk is simply manipulating people into choosing black and white. I think he wanted everyone to start arguing whether it was a Nazi salute (hence his surprise talk to a far right group) the ideology he follows is the ideology of musk, many ND people crave a dopamine hit to get fuel. He’s basically a parasite feeding of others arguments and feeding his sense of control.

We need to stop being manipulated into Left/Right, we need to reassert ownership and recognition of the complexity of human thought.

The success of AI relies on us thinking like computers, because computers will never reach the potential of humanity.

People need to educate themselves about how they are being manipulated, a manipulation that is about to become a million times worse with AI (and it’s the Left in this country who are pushing that gateway into mass control).

I agree that people are being manipulated, I disagree that it's those on the left doing the manipulation.

The big social media outlets, x, Facebook, YouTube are controlled by Trump supporters, one of them- Musk has spoken at an AFD meeting and given a politically motivated, fervent gesture, spookily akin to a nazi salute (if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck). These people control the narrative and you only have to watch what Trump is doing to see the direction of travel.

The faux innocent posts denying any knowledge, outright denial, gaslighted and denial of evidence is coming from those in support of Trump. The disinformation, the lies and manipulation is coming from those who seek to make extremism mainstream.

I would add that the posters saying that left and right are polarising, and we shouldn't be using these terms are mainly those excusing Musk.

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The new posters, who post a few times, then leave, the almost 24hour barrage of posters with the same script, almost as if they are paid and working shifts also seem to dislike any pushback against the rise of the far right.

This month's theme, on multiple platforms, seems to be "There is no such thing as the far right, we are just asking reasonable questions. Not our fault if they are the same ones that Tommy Robinson asks."

By the way, I would not be surprised if your post got taken down. Suggestions that not everybody here is a bona fide poster do not seem to go down well at MNHQ.

In my opinion the far right is on the rise and their bigoted beliefs are becoming more mainstream

The change in this forum in the last few months reflects that.

@Llttledrummergirl

"I would add that the posters saying that left and right are polarising, and we shouldn't be using these terms are mainly those excusing Musk."

I genuinely believe that social media and the subsequent echo chambers has indeed led to a polarisation of political views away from the centre.

And yes an objective definition of what is left or right wing, far left or far right and extremism is difficult to find with much depending on the views of the person describing something as far left or far right.

An opinion on Musk is irrelevant to this view.

By the way, I would not be surprised if your post got taken down. Suggestions that not everybody here is a bona fide poster do not seem to go down well at MNHQ

Yep. But far-right rhetoric is all fine and dandy.

And yes an objective definition of what is left or right wing, far left or far right and extremism is difficult to find with much depending on the views of the person describing something as far left or far right.

It's really not. Just as there's never been any debate on Nazis being left wing. Wanting remigration, an ethnostate and lack of human rights is not left wing.

If you don't know what left wing is, think of the NHS, the welfare state, social housing, free school meals, free education, labour and equality laws, trade unions and bargaining power, nationalisation of companies, a living wage, redistribution of wealth and so on.

Far left is Communism and far right is Fascism.

And this is why it got a post all to itself.

Not far right.

Does she not realize that many other countries in Europe have less than 24 weeks for their abortion limit? The UK is a bit unusual as far as that goes.

I'd say that on the political points you are about dead center. The Musk thing isn't a political opinions, IMO, though your friend is approaching it that way.

🎯

Personally I think Musk’s salute was obviously a Nazi salute.

The rest of what you say doesn’t sound far right. I think most non British citizens who commit crimes are deported as it is!

The abortion point - the 22 weeks thing isn’t the end of the world but I think a lot of people fear Farage (if he ever got the chance) and his ilk would ban it altogether if they thought it would win them votes/ popularity with the US.

Skilled immigrants point - I don’t think it “makes you a Nazi” but I also think there’s an argument that we need lesser skilled immigrants too.

So no I don’t think you’re a Nazi but I think foolish on the Musk point.

William Shatner doesn't think it was a Nazi salute so that's actually good enough for me.