Dh has new female friend

[Saladdays01]

DH (married 20 years) has recently become good friends with female colleague. She is separated with a young DD. Met her at a social event last month, she seems nice and has asked to meet up just with me too. However she messages my Dh nearly every other day now. Sometimes work stuff but usually sharing links to stuff they are interested in etc. I think it’s just friendly and she’s done the same with me (to a much, much lesser extent as we don’t really know each other yet). They do share a lift occasionally too. AIBU to be worried about all this? Dh says she’s just a person and I have absolutely nothing to worry about. They are talking about going for a drink at some point but I feel a bit uneasy about this. Should I invite myself along too or is that weird?!

I think it's lovely that you and your dh are still happily married and haven't cheated, however sadly that's not the case for everyone as this thread shows. You and your DH haven't lasted because you were both "cool", you lasted because you were both committed and faithful.

Are your male friends married?

You obviously don't look like Margot Robbie.

So having any kind of boundary or expectation of how someone in a relationship with you behaves, is an abusive, controlling act?

My DH can absolutely do whatever he likes, be friends with who he likes, choose to invest hours into another woman that isn't me and shag whoever he likes; but he won't be able to do all of those things while remaining in a relationship with me.

It's not abusive and controlling- it's a boundary.

Sounds like a lot of netters have trust issues.

Just wouldn't do this with a married man either unless all equal and new him beofe he was married and my dh know him etc.

I wouldn't b behave like this at all with a new man friend, I wouldn't want to go out for drinks at all it would make me feel deeply uncomfortable

I'm afraid I don't understand why the term " cool wife" is considered misogynistic.

I don't use it myself but I think it's a very appropriate term for some women who display a very laissez faire attitude to their marriage.

And the women who get described as " cool wives" are always quick to dismiss others who don't share their views with very disparaging language.

I also think its unwise to be black and white about inter sex friendships: either to say every friendship between man and woman is appropriate or no friendship between man and woman is appropriate is equally ridiculous.

Every situation should be judged on its own merits. And most OP's who post on here because they are upset by a certain friendship of their DH make the point that their DH has other women friends and they are OK with that. That it is the particular friendship that feels different and is worrying them.

But that doesn't stop a certain section of posters disparaging the OP because in their view the OP is in the wrong for sensing something is wrong.

I wouldn’t panic as she has reached out to you also. But you’re aware. As she has messaged you, suggest you all go together. Because if this was the other way around how would he feel?

When I was single though I wouldn't have felt comfortable being close to a married man. I would think about the wife's feeling because I like other women.

You're right, I would not trust a woman messaging my dh every day and wanting to meet for drinks.

Look, we all have friends of the opposite sex but there are lines that you don't cross and it's disappointing though sadly not surprising that we are having to point this out.

Setting boundaries is healthy in any marriage and your marriage should always come first and me prioritized wayyy above some new random woman. Let’s not be naive in that this type of situation is how affairs start ALL. THE.TIME so wanting to put boundaries in place to protect your marriage isn’t abusive or controlling. Healthy boundaries are good for any marriage. He isn’t sleeping with her to our knowledge so there isn’t a physical affair going on but that doesn’t mean there isn’t an emotional affair happening right under his wife’s nose. Dedicating lots of time to another woman, meeting up with her one on one in the evening where your spouse isn’t welcome to join, being her emotional support person is the definition of an emotional affair and it’s already happening right under OP’s nose and you have the audacity to call it abusive and controlling for his wife to call out what is happening. Talk about gaslighting.

also if this woman is so above board why is she seeking out friendships with married men instead of looking for single men, or women friendships. Why is she not going out of her way to respect his marriage, why isn’t she insisting his wife is always invited and if the wife can’t make it rescheduling. I can tell you why bc she is enjoying having this man all to herself and the attention she is getting from him and why shouldn’t she I can’t blame her he is serving up to her on a silver platter. Disregarding his wife’s feelings, texting her constantly, lavishing her with attention over drinks.

This man works with this woman, correct? So he already sees her everyday why can’t he talk to her and have his friendship be during work hours? He always sees her 8 hours a day he doesn’t see his wife then and a lot of people get very little time in the evening so why is he dedicating more time to this woman than the 8 hours he already has with her during the day. That’s more time than his actual wife gets. his wife gets a few hours in the evenings but this hussy gets 8 hours a day at the office plus his attention in the evening over text plus his attention over drinks. Yeah no that wouldn’t fly with me and asking your husband to keep it a work friendship or to work lunches is perfectly acceptable. Why is this energy not going to his wife and working on their marriage.

I don’t even speak to my own parents everyday let alone a male colleague.

And if he objects to that then clearly there are red flags waving everywhere bc why is this friendship with some new woman more important than protecting and valuing his own marriage? Also if they want to meet up aged work hours then I’m invited as his wife as well and again his reaction to that will be very telling bc he shouldn’t be discussing anything with her or her with him that is below board and can’t be said in front of his wife. Secrecy and wanting to keep your wife out of the friendship is affair territory.

also he wants to make friends why isn’t he inviting his older woman coworker out why isn’t he texting and inviting Bob from shopping or Mark from finance out solo for drinks? Why isn’t he texting his male colleagues all day? I can tell you why that is.

Texting her everyday constantly which is dedicating a lot of emotional energy to her. Something that should be reserved for your spouse. How he even has time to sit there and text this woman everyday when he has a wife and kid at home is beyond me so again no physical cheating but she is very clearly on his mind. You are saying it’s abusive and controlling to ask your husband to focus on his family his wife and kids when he is at home and to keep his work friendship strictly professional she is supposed to be naive and bury her head in the sand.

Again people are human beings even if they swear up and down they would never cheat mistakes happen there is nothing wrong with saying, “listen I’m getting a bad vibe out of this I think we should get together only in group settings with the three of us or you and other colleagues but it makes me uncomfortable as your wife that you are dedicating so much time to this woman and shutting me out from this friendship.” Especially given again she is in a vulnerable state newly single a single mother I’m sure she is stressed now she has this new man giving her all the attention she wants constant text messaging solo drinks listening to her and he is human it’s stroking his ego I’m sure to have this new and OP mentioned younger attractive woman leaning on him they have alcohol in their system and sure enough.

There is a huge huge difference from having opposite sex friendships from your childhood or school days where you guys both went through periods of being single and there was very clearly no romantic interest ever there unless one was really good at hiding it and texting here and then then as a married man striking up a friendship with a younger attracifce woman who is fresh off a new relationship and texting her daily meeting up for drinks where your wife isn’t invited.

I prefer naive wife to cool. There's nothing cool about thinking that constant messaging and meeting up with a young newly single person is ok.

but the thing is, its only ever thrown around on here when women say they're not about controlling their partner/husbands friendships, and its not used in a nice way at all, its bitchy, and mean, and meant to offend/cause hurt, its a term that 'others' another woman.

That is the issue i have with it... the connotations of its use. Just because someone has a different view point to yours shouldn't warrant labelling or name calling.

sorry a typo that should read after not aged

It’s not that hard to understand, surely. It’s used to other and dismiss women who simply have different approaches to friendships and relationships, as well as to imply they’re not actually really ok with their husbands having female friends, but put up with it in a man-pleasing way. It was also popularised in a famous passage in Gillian Flynn’s Gone Girl which sees the ‘cool girl/wife’ as an inauthentic male pleading construct, a woman who pretends to like football, burping, anal sex, cheap beer because ‘pretending to be the woman men want them to be’. What people appear to overlook is that this is narrated by a manipulative, murderous psychopath who is the ultimate unreliable narrator.

Whole passage here: https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/13306276-gone-girl

I can only speak for myself, but I’m a 52 year old woman who has been married, happily, for a very long time. I can assure you I’m not ‘pretending’ to be ok with DH’s female friends, or to be harbouring covert attractions for my male friends.

I sometimes think the paranoia on Mn surrounding opposite-sex friendships is less down to sexual jealousy than it is down to so many Mners struggling with any kind of friendship.

And in the same token don’t call people controlling or abusive because they are sensing a vibe is off. Or because they want their spouse not texting some other woman all
hours of the evening and that they aren’t nice and can see the writing on the wall. It’s very much so gaslighting to label a woman who doesn’t just bury her head in the sand to signs as abusive and controlling. Or calling them abusive and controlling bc their comfort level and boundaries are different than yours.

You say you don’t want to be called a cool wife bc you think it’s disparaging and you don’t like feeling judged for having a different comfort level but in turn aren’t you judging them for having stricter boundaries and different comfort levels by jumping to the abusive and controlling label. I mean really what skin off your back is it that another woman isn’t comfortable with her husband trotting off to solo drinks in the evening with another woman. Her having an opinion on that makes her a typical wife.

How often do you hear wives saying things like, “I never ever thought he would cheat on me but I didn’t want to seem controlling so I sat back and said nothing when something felt off bc he swore up and down they were just friends and made me feel crazy for questioning things.”

so women have to protect themselves to and follow their gut instincts and I rather err on the side of asking my husband not to engage in risky tempting behaviors with another woman at the risk of being labeled “controlling” then end up in a situation where I’m naive and being cheated on right under my nose.

Cheating doesn’t just mean literal sex either. It means putting your female friendship above that of your marriage with your wife. It means hiding messages from your friend. Not being 100% open about what they are discussing. It means telling your wife no she isn’t invited to drinks and dinner out. It means acting as another woman’s therapist by offering emotional support. Thats another form of cheating as well bc you are placing this other woman and elevating her up above your wife and there’s a term for that emotional cheating.

You're happily married though, not single.
This is another way affairs begin.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to protect your marriage.

Oh, and I don’t have in any way a ‘laissez-faire’ attitude to my marriage. I take it seriously. I adore DH, and we’ve been together through thick and thin since the early 1990s — having a child, moving countries on a number of occasions, dealing with good times and bad. I still like as well as love him. I still find him interesting. I love going out for dinner with him. I think this staying power must be partly because we’re not solely emotionally reliant on one another. Our relationship is nourished by our friendships.

I think that’s the reverse of ‘laissez-faire’.

I have this funny thing in relationships where I don't like telling my man who to be friends with. Because I'm not a control freak.

This thread has been so interesting to me. Over the years I have worked in a male industry (it sucks!) and I have made some good male friends who are / were colleagues. We have gone through tribunals, redundancies and pretty extreme work stress together.

I have also recently started therapy for a dysfunctional childhood. My therapist noticed I am pretty bad at setting boundaries with men. (Embarrassing)

Anyway, with the help from my therapist and my amazing DH I have come to the shocking realisation that I shouldn’t be texting my work colleagues outside of work or sending them silly crap on socials. I thought I was just being friendly but it turns out I’m embarking on risky behaviour completely unintentionally.

Yes men and women can be friends. But it needs to be clear, with clear boundaries set & spouses involved from the beginning.

I feel repulsed and quite nauseous at the thought of another wife being angry at me (and quite rightly so!) I feel guilty and ashamed too.

I’m so hyperaware of it that I’ve changed my behaviour completely. And no longer text my colleagues AT ALL. (I wouldn’t have gone for a drink with them though, that’s just plain weird!)

Anyway, that’s me from the “other side” of this. I only joined Mumsnet to share my story as I’m usually a lurker ☺️

By the logic of some posters here, having any boundaries could be seen as controlling.

If I said to a man "I don't want you ever touching my feet", he's an adult who can just look at that and say "no thanks, you're bloody weird" and leave.

It's a boundary, it's not controlling.

Ideally these boundaries would be stated early on in a relationship though.

@Ratri it's not just on here. I have a lot of couple friends and none of them spend a lot of time with the opposite sex one to one. We spend a lot of time with each other's DHs but together. I have no time or desire to see them on my own.

I've just spoke about this thread with DH. We both said we wouldn't like it or felt the need to. Our relationship in neither controlling or abusive.

I'm sorry but I've not heard of the work you refer to.

I must say I never for one moment assumed that the women who post saying they are OK with their DH/ DP having any female friend they want was only " pretending" to be OK with it: I've always assumed they were OK with it!

And it's very ironic that you see the use of the " cool wife" term as dismissing an approach to friendships and marriage. Because what always comes over from the women others refer to as " cool wives" is how dismissive and disparaging they are to the approach to relationships that don't gel with their own. Almost every single time we get the accusation of it's " controlling" and it's " abusive" if a poster actually thinks boundaries in relationships are necessary and appropriate.

And I think asserting MN is paranoid about opposite friendships is actually incorrect. You only have to read the numerous threads which regularly crop up where affairs- emotional and physical- have started off initially as friendships? That's not paranoia. That's reality.

@ShakeyPinkZebra, as someone who’s also in therapy for dealing with a dysfunctional childhood, I don’t necessarily see what you describe as some kind of therapeutic breakthrough. I wouldn’t see any of what you describe as ‘risky behaviour’, or poor boundaries, unless it involves unboundaried behaviour in response from your colleagues.

'think this staying power must be partly because we’re not solely emotionally reliant on one another. Our relationship is nourished by our friendships.'

Why do you like sneering at women? I'm not in any way shape or form reliant on my dh but if a woman was messaging him constantly and wanting to meet him for drinks I would not be impressed.

Your relationship is nourished by your friendships? That is lovely, most people have friends but we are talking about inappropriate constant messaging here and that is not remotely nourishing.

He can be friends with her sure work friends but he already sees her 8 hours a day at work and that’s not enough he is texting her on top of that cutting into time with his wife and child. That’s more time and attention given to this other woman than his own wife! Nothing wrong with saying hey honey I’m your wife and I’m asking you to respect our marriage first and foremost please keep this friendship work related and no one on one drinks in the evening. If this man is a halfway decent husband his loyalty will lie to his wife over this other woman and if he continues to not invite his own wife to dinner and drinks with this other woman then clearly red flags are waving that shouldn’t be ignored and addressed. If it’s not then he is clearly checked out of the marriage and other woman or not that’s a symptom of a larger issue that needs to be addressed.

and why is this women seeking one on one handouts with someone else’s husband knowing he is married. That’s a red flag right there you just don’t do that leave the married men alone. If she is a halfway decent woman she would extend all invites to his wife so she isn’t after this woman’s woman. She is so lonely find a single man or another female to befriend but sorry a married man should be off limits with this level of intimacy and friendship.

Why is it such an issue for you that other women have different comfort levels and boundaries with their husbands?