Living with a partner who is used to SAHM / homemaker dynamic

[glensof]

Moved in together with a partner (6 months ago), and need advice.

Our relationship is brilliant in all respects, apart from one: he does absolutely zero "housework" of any sorts. Not only physical things (dishes, laundry, cooking, minor diy and such), but also no "mental load" of any sorts (doctor's appointments, bills, insurance, subscriptions - all his own). His level of competence in domestic duties / life admin is roughly at the level of a pre-schooler - I am serious.

All his previous partners / wives have been 100% homemakers (whether there were children in the relationship or not), and he doesn't have much experience living on his own, or with a woman who has to work for a living. He's been exceptionally financially successful in the past so it was no issue at all, but now his circumstances have changed quite dramatically and it is no longer the case.

I am the only breadwinner now, and it started to annoy me that after a long stressful work day I have a second shift picking his socks from the floor and collecting dishes / mugs from the house. We discussed it openly and he does fully understand where I am coming from, and is very apologetic. If I ask him explicitly to do something, he will do with absolutely no complaints - but I just can't constantly micromanage an adult to this level ("go and pick up your socks first darling, and then we'll discuss current affairs and geopolitics"). I feel like a nagging shallow bitch so I just do it myself. His problem is that he can't immediately unlearn nearly 40 years of previous coupled life - he's used to socks and mugs magically disappearing, the car somehow always being fully charged just when he needs it, fairies delivering a delicious dinner straight to the table each night and dentist appointments in his calendar just popping up when the time comes. He genuinely just doesn't see these tasks, understand how long they take or how frequently they need to be done - they don't even register with him as "something that needs to be done for my comfort by someone".

I love him to bits and I really, really want this to work. There's so much that is right about him, and I want this to be the last relationship in my life (in a good way). This post is not to complain, but genuinely to seek advice on how to fix the situation. I am quite a messy creature myself, and have a higher than average tolerance to domestic chaos - but it now started getting even to me, and I was a bit snappy several times.

Tell him in order for this relationship to suceed you would like to live separately and him get a job. Watch how fast the relationship disintegrates. You embode the stereotype of "nurse with a purse", nothing wrong with that IF IT MAKES YOU HAPPY but not really, as you have a "teenage son" for partner and you're finding it too much.

It does make her happy, though.
She has already decided to up her cleaner hours. His conversation and the sex is worth that.

I realise you want advice not to be told he is a loser so this is mine:

Tell him again as it sounds like you have already that this isn't working for you and you're not going to be the domestic fairy. If he can't sort it out within, say, 6 weeks, you will ask him to leave.

1. stop doing absolutely everything that is his alone - from his life admin to his laundry to his coffee cups. It will be painful but you have to hold that boundary. Have a place where you chuck all his stuff in the house and tell him that's what you're doing

2. tell him what outcomes you want to see, not the inputs and all the tasks but the outcomes. So for example "I want you to cook dinner every day" or "I need you to keep the surfaces clear" he will say "but I don't know how" just keep replying "you are a clever man, I am sure you can work it out". Every time he doesn't do one of them, point it out. Factually. "You haven't done dinner" "there is stuff all over the kitchen counters". Be clear that you're not doing it and DO NOT give in, not even once.

3. This one might be controversial but do not reward bad behaviour. When he's left his socks everywhere and stuff, do not be cheerful and happy and have sex with him. Tell him how disappointed you are that a clever man like him hasn't figured out how to pick up a sock.

Basically strong boundaries and make your displeasure clear.

Truth is if she was happy she wouldn't be opening threads on MN complaining about this relationship. The sex and the conversation are "amazing" but she has a "teenage son" as partner which is very off putting and will have her dumping his magic cock and charming words eventually. A man doesn't become a feminist at 60, if OP complains too much and he feels his cushy life threatened he may do laundry for a month (the horrors!) then go back to his usual ways, becase that's how he was raised and how he's acted all his life. It's going to take a lobotomy to see this man turned into a house fairy, responsible equal partner.

Truth is if she was happy she wouldn't be opening threads on MN complaining about this relationship.

This.

And aren't there quite a lot of data about issues over sharing household tasks and life admin being the crux of many mid-life relationship splits? That article "I left my husband because he left his mug on the side" sort of thing.

I can't believe someone directed op to the freedom programme

The Freedom Programme is all about learning healthy boundaries and how to spot toxic and abusive partners. Why shouldn't she be directed to it? From what I see she has no boundaries and is in a toxic, unhealthy relationship.

I am always curious about this sort of dynamic

I can't imagine gradually taking over some else's life admin. My own is enough!

How does that happen? If my DH asked me to make him a dentist appointment or similar, unless there was some proper reason he couldn't do it - like he was about to get onto a long distance flight and had toothache or something - I would just say "yeah no"

A woman's work is never done. Because the man is doing all the work for her.

(ducks for cover 😂)

OP are you quite a lot younger than this man?

I can't imagine gradually taking over some else's life admin. My own is enough!

And I can't imagine letting someone take over my life admin. And I couldn't respect anyone that passive and lacking in independence.

I would love someone to take over my life admin...

But I could only feel comfortable with that if I was contributing in another way really substantially

You need to take your own advice. Why are you putting up with it?

Men who treat successive wives and partners and DC like this are not ‘lovely blokes’

Let me re-word this: "Men with successive wives" are not 'lovely blokes'.

To those offering sound advice here about useless partners - how do you deal with someone who really doesn’t mind socks on the floor, disgusting toilets or general mess and chaos? Genuine question because I’m living with this for 20 years now and haven’t been able to bring about change. I don’t do his laundry and set myself up in a separate bathroom but it’s still a day to day issue tidying up after him to have clean spaces for myself. I see it as a lack of respect but he sees it as different views on cleanliness.

Divorce usually solves the problem.

They go and find some other mug to do it for them.

I keep thinking about the OP's comment that before she moved her 'D'P into her house, he lodged with a friend for a year, and the friend's wife cooked, cleaned, did admin for and acted like a general skivvy for the useless sponger. Not the male friend himself, of course, but the friend's wife. The woman in the house.

I simply cannot bear the sound of this man, who expects the women in his life to act like his personal handmaids even when he's not in a relationship with them. Maybe I'm being cynical, but I wonder if the main reason he maintains close ties with his stepdaughter is because she took over looking after him during the times when he wasn't in an intimate relationship, and she's there as a fallback option if OP decides she's had enough.

And the OP reckons she has 'great sex' with him? How could any woman be attracted to a man like that? I find such utter blatant sexism and weaponised uselessness genuinely repulsive.

Agreed.
Those clued in wouldn't touch them.
They realise that there is a reason they are cast offs.
Only the most desperate of women take on losers that are in effect kept men.
That fact that he is a misogynistic lazy loser is a real low.
But if that is where your bar is and you are prepared to pay for it, you can't really be surprised at how it turns out.

Men like this are grifters and are miles ahead of the women they get to pay and skivvy for them.
Literally miles ahead.

OP deserves better but doesn't want better unfortunately.

@NeverDropYourMooncup Ha ha and thanks, it’s definitely possible as DC are getting older. And then he will be like the dating bloke who was recently dumped by someone on here for having a filthy toilet. I just wish there was a strategy somewhere in between divorce or suck it up.

I just wouldn't have stuck around for 20 years.

I did date someone a bit like this for a while and it was a deal-breaker for me.

I have always been really clear about what I will not tolerate

@kiraric I was a bit of a slob myself when we met and we were young. I matured over time and we had DC and divorce was not an option because of trauma from my parents splitting up. So the years added up. Then you have to decide if it’s too late or not to cut your losses or keep going. There is genuine love still too. It’s just a grind to deal with this type of perpetual immaturity.

He takes out the bin or he gets in the bin.

Not sure what he is bringing to this relationship.

I am a somewhat conservative Asian woman married to a somewhat conservative Asian man and I don't tolerate this. Clean loos and socks in baskets are something even my teen son can manage. Everyone in the house cooks, does chores and schedules their own appointments.

I just wish there was a strategy somewhere in between divorce or suck it up.

Yes, that's the problem, isn't it? It's easy enough when you're reading a thread to say to the OP, "Just do X. Set your boundaries."

But when you live with someone day to day it's really not so easy. It can become a constant nagging small battle.

So maybe it's the threat of divorce?

It's 'living apart together', isn't it? In a committed, serious relationship but separate homes. So he is welcome to never wash up or leave socks on the floor, but that doesn't impact on how the other person wants their home environment to be.