Living with a partner who is used to SAHM / homemaker dynamic

[glensof]

Moved in together with a partner (6 months ago), and need advice.

Our relationship is brilliant in all respects, apart from one: he does absolutely zero "housework" of any sorts. Not only physical things (dishes, laundry, cooking, minor diy and such), but also no "mental load" of any sorts (doctor's appointments, bills, insurance, subscriptions - all his own). His level of competence in domestic duties / life admin is roughly at the level of a pre-schooler - I am serious.

All his previous partners / wives have been 100% homemakers (whether there were children in the relationship or not), and he doesn't have much experience living on his own, or with a woman who has to work for a living. He's been exceptionally financially successful in the past so it was no issue at all, but now his circumstances have changed quite dramatically and it is no longer the case.

I am the only breadwinner now, and it started to annoy me that after a long stressful work day I have a second shift picking his socks from the floor and collecting dishes / mugs from the house. We discussed it openly and he does fully understand where I am coming from, and is very apologetic. If I ask him explicitly to do something, he will do with absolutely no complaints - but I just can't constantly micromanage an adult to this level ("go and pick up your socks first darling, and then we'll discuss current affairs and geopolitics"). I feel like a nagging shallow bitch so I just do it myself. His problem is that he can't immediately unlearn nearly 40 years of previous coupled life - he's used to socks and mugs magically disappearing, the car somehow always being fully charged just when he needs it, fairies delivering a delicious dinner straight to the table each night and dentist appointments in his calendar just popping up when the time comes. He genuinely just doesn't see these tasks, understand how long they take or how frequently they need to be done - they don't even register with him as "something that needs to be done for my comfort by someone".

I love him to bits and I really, really want this to work. There's so much that is right about him, and I want this to be the last relationship in my life (in a good way). This post is not to complain, but genuinely to seek advice on how to fix the situation. I am quite a messy creature myself, and have a higher than average tolerance to domestic chaos - but it now started getting even to me, and I was a bit snappy several times.

I probably wasn't very clear and people started making assumptions. He has some assets (not a big stash) and a modest income. I've been with him through his diagnosis, surgery and radio (and bankruptcy) so quite certain of what happened and how. I am now paying for all luxuries like holidays, but he would be self sufficient on his own if he was to live separately. The house we live in is mine.

He's moved from his Mum's to a girlfriend, to a wife x 3 and never had to learn how to run a house or do life admin.

The fact he's been divorced 3 times is a bit of a red flag.

Perhaps all the other women got fed up of having to do everything for him too.

I'm not sure OP. I feel like this isn't going to work. Perhaps all the other previous partners were equally disappointed at his lack of help too.

In the end, nobody wants a man-child do they?

I don't think I could continue to have sex with a man-child. It's just too much of a turn-off.

If he has the same values as you, then he should have equality and respect for each other as part of those.

Equality is equality within the house.

I'd love to have someone cook me a perfect meal every night and do my washing and book my dental appointments. But labour should be shared.

You're already earning for both of you. And now you're going to be his house-maid? He's really landed on his feet. I'm not sure this is love OP. I'm really not sure it is, no matter how many times you tell yourself that it is.

What do your friends and people who care about you think of him? Do they know how things are at home?

I could not live with a man like this, it would be impossible for me. Can you afford cleaner etc. Otherwise, I would be writing a list of chores and splitting it down the middle and saying do your half yourself, or pay someone to do your half for you, otherwise I am off. A grown adult can do household chores. Charging the car for example can be his job. You just never ever do that job from now and assign ownership to him. Same with other jobs for example bins, dusting or whatver half the chores are. Just never do them. I would never ever pair my husbands socks for example, I pull all washing out the dryer, sort into piles of whoes it is, then it is up to him to take it upstairs, iron and put away. I dont do anything other than take it out the dryer. The rest is his job.

With all respect I think you are misunderstanding the problem. It’s not that he ‘can’t’ understand about leaving his socks on the floor etc, ( of course he can). He is, of course, able to learn these simple tasks and routines. He’s just not motivated to.
The situation may not be working for you, but it’s working very well for him. Housework is boring and dull. Who would take it on when they don’t have to? No-one would really. And he doesn’t have to. He’s got you. He can apologize and forget about it, till he needs to apologize again.

He may be lovely in other ways and a great shag and thoughtful in ways that are easy for him, but when it comes down to it, he’s not prepared to do something that is boring and dull and unpleasant to help you out. He’d much rather you work all day and then sort out the domestic stuff too, than have to take on these drudge tasks himself. So that is what he is doing.

That is the honest truth of it. You can try to persuade yourself that it just too hard for the poor dear after all those years of a SAHW, too hard for him to learn new habits, even though he is trying. But you must know deep down that it’s not true. My FIL (now 80) was the most traditional man ever with a very, very traditional marriage set up. When he retired he still set about doing the housework with his wife every day and then sitting down for a sherry with her when they had done.

Your man can pull his weight. He is choosing not to because he can. You have to decide if you want to live like that with a man who is treating you with such a basic level of disrespect.

If you want to nip it in the bud then do so. Stop doing it for him.

Tell him you expect him to be able to look after himself as you are his partner, not his mother.

I suspect there are some underlying values at play here, that this is 'women's work'. If he's been living with these types of beliefs for his entire life, and has been facilitated by previous partners, you are unlikely to change how he feels about it.

It's probably going to cause some friction in your relationship and he may be resentful.

But honestly, if he's capable of everything else you say, he's perfectly capable of this.

Personally I could not be with a man like this, no matter how great he was in other respects. It's basic disrespect for you as his partner and I don't buy for one second that he doesn't know exactly what he's doing here.

I cannot imagine anybody in their right mind would take on responsibility for making doctors’ appointments and renewing car insurance for some random mate of their husband’s.

I really, really want this to work. There's so much that is right about him, and I want this to be the last relationship in my life

Oh OP, in your desperation for him to be the ‘one’, you are choosing not to take his preschool life abilities seriously. I fear this thread will be a waste of time, and you will slip more and more into skivvy role, and feel trapped in a year from now.

A few people have said to write him a list of schedule of things that need to be done. I don’t much like this idea - the OP does a proper job already and this man is an adult. It’s up to him to decide whether he needs to go to the dentist.

I wonder whether this is one of those times where it is easier to be direct - no faffing about with lists (which, realistically, is rather passive aggressive). Pretend you are an English speaking Dutch / Swedish / German person. When you get home and find his socks scattered about the place say “How disgusting, why am I living with your socks on the floor? What is wrong with you?” in a completely matter of fact way.

If he asks you to book him a dentist appointment, say (in a completely matter of fact way) “That is not my role. You need to take care of these things yourself”. Of course, it is possible that he will take this very badly - but if he does then that tells you that he isn’t interested in changing - he just wants a PA / maid / cook.

If you have a cleaner then there is not too much to do.

Youd be doing your laundry anyway? You’d be cooking anyway?

But simply write a list of all the tasks you complete and simply show him
said list.

Ask him to pick a number of tasks from the list and agree how often they will be done.

Some men really are dim and need things spelling out!

The house we live in is mine.

Oh dear. If it was his place, you could just move back out. Now you have the issue of getting him to move back out when he has no income.
You have got yourself into a difficult situation.

But, you won't and can't change him. So live with it, or bite the bullet and make him move back out.

Don't take on the mental load of writing lists for him. Get him to Google for a house keeping list and then he can work his way through that each day or whatever works. And then he might start realising that he needs to be the fairy in the house while you're at work. And if he doesn't know how to do something like work the washing machine, he can again google and YouTube will have a video.

@glensof what age is he? is he likely to ever return to work and when? what does he actually do all day if he doesnt even pick up his dirty socks? can he cook a meal and do the shopping? why does he not even have his own house????

but he would be self sufficient on his own if he was to live separately.

That’s the solution if you want to continue with the relationship.

Tell him to pull the other one, it's got bells on, as my dear old Ma used to say.

This isn't something for you to fix. It's down to him. He's totally bullshitting you and you are falling for it. He may not have done these things before, but he's aware they are done by someone. He knows perfectly well that food needs to be bought and cooked, dirty clothes washed, houses tidied. He wants to pretend he doesn't, and you are jumping right in to fill all the gaps.

Stop. Stop doing anything. If he doesn't get it all sorted in a week or so, he never will. Then you need to decide whether you want to be this man's lifelong servant or not.

Don't laugh at me, but could you afford a course of CBT for him to change some of his thought patterns around housework and responsibility?

I gradually took his life admin over these 4 years. He's been renting a room from a friend (and paying extra for cleaning etc), as he stayed close to where his youngest child lived. Now the child is off to uni, and we finally moved together - we would have much earlier, but the circumstances were such that it wasn't the best thing for his daughter.

DH has grown to be unable to put his clean clothes away. So there's a huge pile on top of the dresser. I'm still doing the laundry but I've got a pile by the drying rack where I put his things. If he wants them upstairs in the bedroom he'll have to get them. Next step might be to stop washing his stuff altogether.

That's what my mom did with my dad. Granted when I was about 14 she stated she wasn't washing anybody's clothes except for her own and we were left to muddle through with it. My brothers tried to claim to not know how to use the washing machine in an attempt to do theirs but it didn't work.

Oh he’s early 60s?? He is not going to change sorry. I retract my previous suggestion of a short training/probation period.

New suggestion: go back to living separately

That way you get all the benefits you’ve described without being annoyed by his domestic incompetence. In fact I’m wondering why you moved in together in the first place?

It's not that he can't learn to do this shit, it's that he can't be arsed.

I'd get him to employ a housekeeper/personal assistant or bin him off tbh. Couldn't be doing with that.

I would throw this one back.

OP, I have to ask, are you the rescuer type?

"Helping others is, of course, an admirable quality. But, for those who thrive on the drama of playing the rescuer, it can be extremely detrimental. It can be a damaging dynamic in relationships, for both the rescuer themselves and their partner.
What is the rescuer personality type?
Someone with the rescuer personality type is driven to help other people, even at the expense of their own wellbeing.
What do rescuers thrive on?
People with a rescuer personality type thrive on the stress of drama but also the close connections and bonds created through helping another person. They want to feel needed and essential to another’s wellbeing. The feeling of caring for another person to this extent often replaces something they have been missing themselves, or distracts from a larger issue.
What are the signs of a rescuer personality?

• Giving more than you take
• A sense of self that depends on helping others
• A strong desire to ‘fix’ people
• Feeling you understand people’s issues and how to resolve them
• Low self esteem
• Being drawn to people who really need you
• A pattern of toxic or destructive relationships
• A possible history of abandonment or toxic caretakers such as abusive or alcoholic parents
• Tending to become unhealthily obsessed with other people and their troubles
• Idealising people in need
• A tendency to be overly controlling
• Often taking the role of ‘parent’ in a relationship
• Partners often becoming overly dependent
• Relationships can become co-dependant

What gets me about these threads over and over again, is how can somebody watch another person run themselves ragged doing everything whilst they sit there doing nothing?

I couldn’t let a friend or colleague do that. Never mind a partner. I would feel too guilty. How can so many men do that without compassion or embarrassment??

Mug.
You're being mugged.
He knows it.
Yes, he's been ill.
But you are providing him with a home, and with full-time domestic services despite being the main breadwinner. And he does nothing.
Does he provide sex?
He must have an ever-ready cock the size of Big Ben.

Wake up, sister. Wake up.

@glensof I suspect he's a kind , intelligent and charming man hence why he's had so many relationships and clearly attracts women easily - to be frank if I was in your position I would as I've said below set ground rules regards contributions both fiscally and domestically - .

He's clearly attracts women easily and is at or towards retirement age anyway - so if you are happy with the nothing aspect then he does need to contribute what he can

And oh - don't marry him!!!!