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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Circumcision should be banned.

634 replies

ArabellaScott · 24/01/2025 14:44

https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2025/01/judge-and-parents-call-for-boys-to-be-protected-from-circumcision

Article describes an upsetting case of two doctors performing these ops without anesthesia, and with sometimes serious side effects. One boy nearly died.

The National Secular Society is running a concurrent campaign to ban all 'religious cutting' - that includes both FGM and male circumcision. I wholeheartedly agree that no baby or child should suffer in this way. More info:

https://www.secularism.org.uk/religious-surgery/

YABU - circumcision for religous reasons is fine
YANBU - circumcision should be banned (unless there is a medical reason)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
SmegmaCausesBV · 19/04/2025 05:13

I actually think it should be allowed for health reasons. Men don't seem to be able to wash properly, so the cleanliness and health implications for both sexes are widespread and under studied.

Walkden · 19/04/2025 05:29

"Men don't seem to be able to wash properly, so the cleanliness and health implications for both"

I'm sorry but this is misandrist rubbish but may reflect the men you know/.associate with.

Imagine a man posted that women struggled with BV and smelly vaginas so FGM should be allowed for health reasons....

SmegmaCausesBV · 19/04/2025 05:42

Walkden · 19/04/2025 05:29

"Men don't seem to be able to wash properly, so the cleanliness and health implications for both"

I'm sorry but this is misandrist rubbish but may reflect the men you know/.associate with.

Imagine a man posted that women struggled with BV and smelly vaginas so FGM should be allowed for health reasons....

Strongly suggest you research what causes BV...
There is a reason it was done to start with (that has nothing to do with sewing up vaginas to keep virginity or slicing off clit' to stop women enjoying sex at all) so you might want to check your understanding of both concepts.

Walkden · 19/04/2025 05:45

"Strongly suggest you research"

Haha. Ok troll.

Dumbdog · 19/04/2025 08:11

Porcuporpoise · 24/01/2025 23:00

I think ear piercing works extremely well as an analogy. The vast, vast majority of those of us who had it done as babies just don't see the problem. We find your obsession with it a little wrird and, tbh, it smacks of intolerance rather than children's rights. I mean look at childhood in the UK. Stuff your kids with crap til they swell up like butter balls, fine - you do you. Give them no freedom, no community and shove them on screens all day - good parenting. Their mental health's in the pan, they're eaten up by anxiety - shall we tackle any of those things? Nah, chavs and foreigners piercing their children's ears is the problem.

None of those things are acceptable.

Who is arguing in favour of poor diet and unfettered access to screens?

No one I know.

I don’t know anyone who doesn’t swiftly act on mental health issues in their kids, nor anyone who doesn’t foster friendships and community.

You have no issue with your ear piercing because culturally, it is accepted. You have been conditioned to believe it is ok, so you do.

That doesn’t change the fundamental truth that it was a modification made to your body without your consent. I don’t think it should be allowed for any child incapable of consenting.

It is a mild one, as holes almost entirely close if left alone, but it is still an issue of consent.

Circumcision is much more invasive and permanent but also fundamentally about consent.

If men want it done when they are old enough to consent, then fine, that is entirely up to them, in the same way getting their nob pierced or forearms tattooed is up to them.

We don’t allow child brides or underage sex because of the harm it does to children - in some cultures those are religiously motivated.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting we ban circumcision entirely - just that we lay out the correct legislation to ensure it is done only with the consent of the person having it - ie when they reach an age where they can consent.

That might be 13, when they have their bar mitzvah, or 16 when they want to start having sex and ‘look better’ 🤮 (don’t agree it does), but it cannot be at a week old.

TheCountofMountingCrispBags · 19/04/2025 08:18

Iwanttoliveonamountain · 24/01/2025 15:32

It’s not a religious thing in USA

So there are no Jews in america?????????

Dumbdog · 19/04/2025 08:21

sashh · 25/01/2025 09:56

I sort of agree but there are times where it is a grey area. What about a child with protruding ears?

Pinning isn't medically necessary but might have a huge psychological effect.

The same with mole or birthmark removal.

That’s different - it’s correcting an abnormality and any intervention needs to be weighed against potential harm.

My ears protruded because the cartilage wasn’t formed properly. I did have it corrected, but when I was 18, after I begged my parents because I was bullied about them so much.

It was probably character building for me, and I was a smart, confident child, so I don’t mind that they waited - but perhaps another child would feel differently.

But cutting something off that is meant to be there is not the same as correcting an abnormality.

Dumbdog · 19/04/2025 08:34

samG76 · 26/01/2025 18:09

Late onto this discussion but the level of religious ignorance is astonishing. No Jewish or Muslim person think that God has made a mistake. That's why circumcision is only required for members of the faith. Unlike many forms of Christianity we don't claim to have a monopoly on the truth or have any wish to legislate for them. What non-Jews or Muslims do is up to them.

As for a legal ban, does anyone seriously think that the govt would have the slightest interest in hacking off the Jewish, Muslim and many Christian/African communities? The only benefit that this batshit proposal would have is to bring those groups together in opposition to the idea. DH has relatives living in a place that regulated but didn't ban the practice. Some of them left the country and went to Israel, others just went ahead regardless.

I appreciate it’s important to your religion - but why on babies?

Can’t adults or competent older children decide? Tie it to bar mitzvahs?

I was christened because it was important to my parents, but chose not to be confirmed because I don’t believe. Giving me the autonomy to decide my own faith was incredibly empowering to me, and I’m grateful to my parents.

Why would any religion force belief on its children? And as an extension of that, permanently modify their bodies?

Just let them choose to be circumcised in the same way as they choose to have their bar mitzvah.

Dumbdog · 19/04/2025 08:38

samG76 · 30/01/2025 10:39

Tellulah - thinking of all the issues caused by professed atheists (Nazis, Stalin, the Cultural Revolution, Pol Pot, etc) I think these dwarf what has been done in the name of religion....

That’s nonsense. Look at the crusades, the Middle East, Gaza, Sudan.

Men will find any excuse to go to war, but to suggest religion isn’t the most used one is fallacy.

Iwanttoliveonamountain · 19/04/2025 11:20

TheCountofMountingCrispBags · 19/04/2025 08:18

So there are no Jews in america?????????

Most men in USA are circumcised, irrespective of religion

TheCountofMountingCrispBags · 19/04/2025 11:25

Iwanttoliveonamountain · 19/04/2025 11:20

Most men in USA are circumcised, irrespective of religion

Edited

Could you provide the source of this information?

ToBeOrNotToBee · 19/04/2025 11:37

TheCountofMountingCrispBags · 19/04/2025 11:25

Could you provide the source of this information?

Common knowledge and National Centre for Statistics.
64% of babies in America are circumcised at birth.
Unless there's a massive Jewish baby boom, most of those operations will be for social reasons rather than religious.
Interestingly, the number of circumcision of newborns in the states is decreasing. In the 60s, over 80% of baby males were circumcised.
The reason America loves cutting babies unnecessarily is as it was pushed by insurance companies as a way of squeezing more money out of hospitals.
Now with research showing a foreskin is important for sexual function, high profile baby deaths, and growing atheism, its becoming less prevalent. Plus its bloody expensive too, with parents choosing not to do it to save money.

hakunangovi · 19/04/2025 19:19

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hakunangovi · 19/04/2025 19:24

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Oliver243 · 03/05/2025 15:28

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ArabellaScott · 03/05/2025 18:36

Have you thought about making a gov.uk petition, Oliver?

OP posts:
GreenCandleWax · 16/06/2025 22:45

ArcticBells · 24/01/2025 15:04

I had to be present for one ( in a nursing capacity). No anaesthetic at all. Horrific

Why no anaesthetic? That is barbaric.

ChuckleDaughter · 16/06/2025 23:50

I agree it's awful but I worry that if it got banned, it would still happen outside of hospitals and be even more dangerous.

JHound · 16/06/2025 23:53

It baffles me that it is legal to mutilate boys genitals in this manner.

sashh · 17/06/2025 06:04

ChuckleDaughter · 16/06/2025 23:50

I agree it's awful but I worry that if it got banned, it would still happen outside of hospitals and be even more dangerous.

It already does happen outside hospital.

Carla786 · 03/01/2026 19:48

Terfarina · 24/01/2025 18:20

I don't get the religious argument. Is this just custom, or in the bible does it say 'thou must cut bits of your children's genitalia'?

It's in the Old Testament/Torah. God tells Abraham to circumcise his male descendants ever after. It's a key mitzvah (commandment) in Judaism for this reason.

Carla786 · 03/01/2026 19:53

Sceptical123 · 24/03/2025 04:18

I know this is an old post but I had to comment.

I’ve always disagreed with this. FGM is basically a tool to subjugate and control girls and young women, male circumcision, although used differently, is still totally unacceptable if it is done to children - with or without their consent. The fact it’s done for some archaic religious purpose is irrelevant. We don’t stone women for adultery here and wouldn’t tolerate it. There are many things that were done a very long time ago that were part of our own indigenous culture and religion that have been rightly discarded. This is surely a human rights issue - how can it not be?!

Ppl are up in arms when babies have their ears pierced, but this is somehow tolerated bc it’s in the scary realms of ethnicity and religion. Fuck that.

Circumcision is unnecessary mutilation or body modification, to put a more sanitary spin on it. Once it’s done - that’s it, forever. How can it ever be justified?!

How can the imposition of such a significant alteration to another person’s genitalia be approved and carried out by qualified surgeons - if they’re ‘lucky’?

This should not even be up for discussion and should not be tolerated here or anywhere else for that matter - it should carry the same stigma as FGM - I’m amazed it doesn’t.

Ppl like the poster I am quoting sum up the view a lot of ppl seem to share - they don’t want to be seen to be critical of another culture or religion. So child abuse should be tolerated if it’s done by a non-British/christian parent? We’ve managed to outlaw child brides and raised the age to 18 but for some reason physical abuse via non-medical surgery is acceptable ?! What if it was part of a culture to have sex with your brother at the age of 16, or FIL before getting married? Or having your fingernails removed at birth?

I cannot understand why ppl would rather not say or do anything for fear of being labelled a racist at the expense of protecting vulnerable babies and children. But then the whole child grooming travesty highlights the gross hypocrisy we have as a society for turning a blind eye to child suffering and abuse in specific circumstances.

It has to stop.

Is there even a religious reason for FGM? I thought it was more of a cultural practice. Circumcision I'm that sense is harder as it's explicitly commanded in the Torah and recommended strongly in the Sunnah.

Carla786 · 03/01/2026 19:55

Tbrh · 24/03/2025 05:56

Probably because we know if it was an acceptable Christian and/or white practice then we'd be ok with it, because it would be the accepted norm. The uncomfortable truth.

Tbf it IS an accepted white practice in the US.

Carla786 · 03/01/2026 19:56

Hoppinggreen · 30/01/2025 11:54

I get your point
If I was to have a party and invite loads of friends round and then someone with no medical qualifications cut some loose skin off my baby with no anaesthetic and not necessarily in a sterile environment then quite rightly SS would want to be involved
Why should that not be the case if I say I am Muslim or Jewish?

Normally Muslims & Jews do use a trained medical person. The death recently was using a backstreet one but that isn't the norm

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