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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Circumcision should be banned.

634 replies

ArabellaScott · 24/01/2025 14:44

https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2025/01/judge-and-parents-call-for-boys-to-be-protected-from-circumcision

Article describes an upsetting case of two doctors performing these ops without anesthesia, and with sometimes serious side effects. One boy nearly died.

The National Secular Society is running a concurrent campaign to ban all 'religious cutting' - that includes both FGM and male circumcision. I wholeheartedly agree that no baby or child should suffer in this way. More info:

https://www.secularism.org.uk/religious-surgery/

YABU - circumcision for religous reasons is fine
YANBU - circumcision should be banned (unless there is a medical reason)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
samG76 · 25/03/2025 14:29

I really look forward to the day one of these cut kids sues their parents and the practitioners who did this to them.

The fact that no-one in the UK seems to have done this might indicate how upset people are in RL.

JHound · 25/03/2025 15:22

samG76 · 25/03/2025 14:29

I really look forward to the day one of these cut kids sues their parents and the practitioners who did this to them.

The fact that no-one in the UK seems to have done this might indicate how upset people are in RL.

Given there are men’s groups dedicated to this, lack of anybody suing their parents does not equate to lack of men who have issue with what was done to them.

Scorchio84 · 25/03/2025 18:33

Pudmyboy · 25/03/2025 13:29

I was referring to a PP who called FGM unnecessary. It isn't unnecessary, it's illegal

Apologies, crossed wires

LadyTable · 25/03/2025 18:39

FateReset · 01/02/2025 14:24

In hot countries it's easier to keep clean and less sweaty, so I understand why most of the countries near equator circumcise boys at birth. The foreskin has no purpose, doesn't affect sex, removal at birth prevents problems later on like foreskin being too tight.

The foreskin has no purpose

Nor do earlobes really but I bet you'd be less than impressed if someone sliced yours off?

BreatheAndFocus · 25/03/2025 19:45

LadyTable · 25/03/2025 18:39

The foreskin has no purpose

Nor do earlobes really but I bet you'd be less than impressed if someone sliced yours off?

The foreskin has a major purpose (not so sure about earlobes!) and contains numerous nerve endings that enhance sexual sensitivity. It also serves a function in intercourse with a woman, as it helps the penis glide in the vagina. A circumcised penis is drier and causes more friction and irritation to the vaginal mucosa.

The foreskin is not just a random bit of unnecessary skin, it’s an important part of sexual pleasure.

CurlewKate · 25/03/2025 20:01

Of course circumcision for non medical reasons should be banned. It’s not a discussion.

Scorchio84 · 25/03/2025 23:05

BreatheAndFocus · 25/03/2025 19:45

The foreskin has a major purpose (not so sure about earlobes!) and contains numerous nerve endings that enhance sexual sensitivity. It also serves a function in intercourse with a woman, as it helps the penis glide in the vagina. A circumcised penis is drier and causes more friction and irritation to the vaginal mucosa.

The foreskin is not just a random bit of unnecessary skin, it’s an important part of sexual pleasure.

@BreatheAndFocus breathe.. @LadyTable is on our side.. we all know it's barbaric & unnecessary

LadyTable · 25/03/2025 23:09

BreatheAndFocus · 25/03/2025 19:45

The foreskin has a major purpose (not so sure about earlobes!) and contains numerous nerve endings that enhance sexual sensitivity. It also serves a function in intercourse with a woman, as it helps the penis glide in the vagina. A circumcised penis is drier and causes more friction and irritation to the vaginal mucosa.

The foreskin is not just a random bit of unnecessary skin, it’s an important part of sexual pleasure.

Yes, quite.

The bit in bold was a quote from a PP, not me.

BreatheAndFocus · 26/03/2025 21:03

LadyTable · 25/03/2025 23:09

Yes, quite.

The bit in bold was a quote from a PP, not me.

I know 😊 I was agreeing with you and elaborating a bit - not correcting you 😊 I’m sure you know, but for anyone just dipping in to the end of the thread, I wanted to put the info. I used to think it was ‘just a bit of skin’ when I was young too, so I’m always keen to stress it’s not.

AlBee3 · 15/04/2025 18:10

I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this post, and it will be a long one, but it is a story that I have wanted to tell for most of my life, so here goes...

I was circumcised when I was 50 for medical reasons (more on that later) but I have suffered with problems with my penis all my life, as will become clear.

Among my earliest memories is being taken to see the doctor in the early 60s when I was about 3. He examined my penis and pulled my foreskin back as part of the examination This was very painful as I don't think it had ever been done before. I remember my mother and the doc. talking for what seemed like for ever before we left, and I am convinced that they were in a discussion about whether I needed circumcising or not. I don't know if my mother was arguing for it and the doc. dissuading her, or the doctor was recommending it on the basis of his examination and my mother was resisting ( I suspect it was the former - knowing my mother she would have taken the doctor's advice). Anyway, I remained uncircumcised.

As I grew up I became more and more aware of my penis (as boys do) and was always troubled by it. Whenever I pulled my foreskin back the glans was messy with smegma and try as I might I could not keep it clean. It was also incredibly sensitive and intolerant of any sort of touch, making it too painful to wash properly even in the bath. One of the things I noticed when I was about 10 was that many of the boys at school had a different sort of penis to me (ie they were circumcised) - I think the division in those days was about 50/50. It occurred to me that they could not have the same problem as me.

Anyway, as I grew older the problem of keeping clean improved but the hyper-sensitivity did not, making adolescent masturbation painful unless I kept the glans artificially wet. I should add that although I devoutly wished that the situation would improve I was always too shy to take my problem to a doctor, but I always carried the notion in the back of my mind that circumcision may be an answer. When I started dating I was always fearful of the pain that might be involved in sexual contact and with the few girlfriends that I had a full relationship with I had to steer them away from over-enthusiastic endeavours with my penis, which surprised (and disappointed) some of them (for instance I could not tolerate oral). I am sure that my shyness over my problems with my penis severely limited my ability to date and enjoy relationships with girls.

When I was in my late forties I noticed a rash on my glans (painless, but very visible and ugly) which I eventually took to my GP, who I knew well. He initially thought it was a fungal infection, but it failed to respond to treatment. He referred me to a dermatologist who diagnosed Zoon's Balanitis and started treatment with steroid creams. I suggested circumcision as almost all medical websites pointed to that being the only sure solution, but he insisted that the creams had a very good chance of working. After a year it was no better so he reluctantly referred my to a urologist who having examined me (v. painful!) said " I wish you had been sent to me a year ago". Apparently the scarring on my foreskin was now very bad. He said he would do the best he could for me and the hospital appointment was made (all this was private on insurance, so there was little delay). Given the state my penis was in he made a very good job, but the skin is fused to the rim of the glans on the left side whereas the scar line sits behind it on the right as it should, giving it an uneven appearance. Sorry it this is too much information (!), but I feel it is relevant to the story.

There was very little pain following the operation, but in the early days after the psychological shock of realising that the protective covering of the glans had gone when all my life I had depended on it to keep me from agony took some getting over. It took more than 6 weeks to heal and settle down, but quite suddenly it all seemed to resolve itself; my glans had become mercifully much less sensitive (to the point where dry touch is pleasurable not agony). The difference in not just my sex life but life in general is massive.

I think that my story raises several important points about the circumcision debate in general - though clearly this is about circumcision for medical reasons and has no bearing on the argument surrounding religious and cultural practice.
I often wonder how different my life would have been if the outcome of that fateful visit to the doctor had gone the other way; about if I had not been so shy and had gone to the doctor as a young man; even about if one of my girlfriends had insisted that something was wrong and had pushed me to get the operation done?

The moral (if that is what it is) is that circumcision is not always wrong even when it is not strongly indicated; that mothers sometimes have an incredibly difficult task in making the right decision; and then when there is a clear indication that your son needs to be circumcised don't be frightened of being bold.

I hope I haven't bored you and thank you for reading my story.

LadyTable · 15/04/2025 18:22

@AlBee3 but the vast majority on this thread have said it's fine for medical reasons?

In fact I don't think I've read a single post that says a doctor shouldn't circumcise if there's a medical reason to do so?

Hoppinggreen · 15/04/2025 18:40

No, boredom was not the main thing I was feeling while reading that long story about your penis.
This thread is about religious circumcision, not medical

namechangeGOT · 15/04/2025 19:03

@AlBee3But surely you can see that medical circumcision is entirely different from the unnecessary, cruel mutilation of little boys based on cultural or religious bullshit? My tits have caused me a world of pain and anguish in my 41 years, starting at 7 years old - should I have had them lobbed off at 7 ‘just in case’? No.

Medical - necessary surgical procedure
Cultural/Religious - unnecessary mutilation

BakedAlaska12 · 15/04/2025 19:46

It is different though, as having a breast reduction is major surgery in comparison to circumcision. If circumcision carried the same risks and healing time I don’t think it would be as widely accepted.

You can’t compare apples and oranges. A comparison to ear piercing would probably fit better.

Saying it’s okay in this instance but not in this one when the outcome is the same doesn’t make sense. It’s like when people get annoyed for kids being on iPads - EXCEPT IF THERE IS A SEN DIAGNOSIS, the outcome is the same. A child is rightly or wrongly sitting in a pushchair staring at a screen.

namechangeGOT · 15/04/2025 19:58

BakedAlaska12 · 15/04/2025 19:46

It is different though, as having a breast reduction is major surgery in comparison to circumcision. If circumcision carried the same risks and healing time I don’t think it would be as widely accepted.

You can’t compare apples and oranges. A comparison to ear piercing would probably fit better.

Saying it’s okay in this instance but not in this one when the outcome is the same doesn’t make sense. It’s like when people get annoyed for kids being on iPads - EXCEPT IF THERE IS A SEN DIAGNOSIS, the outcome is the same. A child is rightly or wrongly sitting in a pushchair staring at a screen.

Breast Reduction?! Where did I mention a breast reduction?

MyBusyBee · 15/04/2025 20:03

My ex husband was Jewish - I was very very clear when we had children there would be absolutely no circulation that I considered it to be totally and utterly unnecessary. Fortunately he agreed with me. His parents didn’t like it but tough.

Some cultures say FGM is tradition or religious - so was stoning people to death - things change and move on.

AlBee3 · 16/04/2025 06:43

I did say at the start of my post that I wasn't sure that I was posting on the right thread, so I apologise for my error and any annoyance/upset/offence I might have caused.
However, I think my case touches on a number of different issues that have been raised over the Mumsnet forum generally about the dilemma that some mothers have in making the right choice for their sons, and about the dangers of delay if the medical professionals advise alternative approaches first when the case indicates that circumcision would be the best course.
I should add that I am most definitely NOT in favour of routine circumcision and I refuse to be drawn into the argument surrounding religious practice as I do not come from the faiths that demand it.
That said, I think that there is also a risk in our society that in seeking to demonise circumcision and create a taboo around it some mothers will be put off from making the right choice for their boys when the indications are that it is or on the balance of probability might be necessary for them.

Hoppinggreen · 16/04/2025 09:54

That said, I think that there is also a risk in our society that in seeking to demonise circumcision and create a taboo around it some mothers will be put off from making the right choice for their boys when the indications are that it is or on the balance of probability might be necessary for them

That is very very unlikely, I doubt any Mother would refuse a medically necessary procedure for their son because some people maim their child for religious reasons.

AlBee3 · 16/04/2025 10:18

I hope you are right.
Every individual is their own exceptional case, but I just feel that in my case the wrong decision was taken when I was very young and I suffered for it as a result.
I would not like any societal attitude to risk putting other boys in the same situation.

Perhaps I have said enough on this topic!

hakunangovi · 18/04/2025 03:13

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AlBee3 · 18/04/2025 15:39

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Thank you for your kind words. You too have suffered all your life as a result of a decision taken when you were young and you have my sincerest sympathy and understanding. At least, if I had been circumcised as a result of that examination when I was 3 my mother would have been able to reassure me with honesty in later years that it was done on medical advice and that I had benefitted as a result, whereas you had no such comfort.

I think our two cases illustrate the enormous difficulty that mothers face in seeking to make the right decision on behalf of their sons and the fact that the pro vs. anti debate can and will never be satisfactorily settled. The original question of this thread is "Should circumcision be banned" (for other than medical necessity) - in other words, made illegal. It is to my mind a hypothetical question anyway as in our multi-cultural society any such ban would discriminate against those cultures which demand it, and that should (quite rightly) never happen. My point remains, however, that if the society builds up a taboo against circumcision to such an extent that societal disapproval makes it regarded as abnormal that could prevent medical practitioners and parents from making the right choice at the right time (and I am a living example of how damaging unnecessary delay can be) and also that those boys who have to have it done may feel freakish and, yes, "mutilated". And you and I both know how this subject can cause life-long mental anguish when it appears to the individual that the wrong choice has been made on their behalf.

Perhaps I really have said enough now!

namechangeGOT · 18/04/2025 17:20

The original question of this thread is "Should circumcision be banned" (for other than medical necessity) - in other words, made illegal. It is to my mind a hypothetical question anyway as in our multi-cultural society any such ban would discriminate against those cultures which demand it, and that should (quite rightly) never happen.

@AlBee3

I have to disagree with you vigorously here! No culture or religion should EVER EVER top trump the rights of children, children I may add that are FAR too young to understand what their penis is, let alone consent to having parts of it removed. There is not a religion or a culture in the world that should be able to have laws and governance consider them when it comes to the rights of children or indeed humans of any age.

Religion is simply a belief. Rights and the right to choose blasts that clean of the water and should be treated as such. If they feel the are being ‘discriminated’ against then cry me a river. For too long religion governed as a way to silence. Make it stop.

Walkden · 18/04/2025 19:42

" It is to my mind a hypothetical question anyway as in our multi-cultural society any such ban would discriminate against those cultures which demand it, and that should (quite rightly) never happen."

Nonsense. People have no issue "discriminating" against certain cultures which "demand" FGM which is rightly illegal.

Dumbdog · 18/04/2025 22:23

Ponoka7 · 24/01/2025 16:30

What I would say to that is in a country like Uganda/Nigeria, were the healthcare isn't good and expensive, you can see why it's best to do it as a newborn. Circumcision at a later age would be life threatening because of infection. Having a foreskin could be life threatening if it gets infected, STIs such as herpes is of less of a risk.
If it is banned this will be driven underground, then we have to decide punishment. Now do we remove children because of this, all (even the emotionally bonded older daughter) some (just boys)? Put people in prison? We'd have to have clear strategies.

So let me get this straight…because promiscuous adult males won’t use condoms, we should mutilate babies?

That is a wild take.

hakunangovi · 19/04/2025 04:14

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