Parents V Teachers

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Whilst I do have some sympathy for teachers in this current climate I can’t help but feel that if you can’t handle the heat then get out of the kitchen, which they’re doing in droves and this leaves mostly hardened, jaded individuals who have no business working with children.

I guess this leads onto a really important question:

What can parents do to improve things that doesn’t involve ignoring unprofessional behaviour from teachers?

YABU - cut teachers some slack/parents are powerless to change the system
YANBU - as a parent I’m worried AND feel I have a part to play

(if neither of the above options fit then please elaborate below)

Thank you, it's kind of you to say so.

I tried teaching - lasted just shy of two years - left last June and went to private sector (still education related but not teaching) - 50% more pay, fully remote, no evening or weekend work, less stress and yes a little less holiday entitlement (but not much) but at least I can take it when I want.

What job? Sounds amazing!

I would love to know what job this is!!

Teach your children to behave.

Don't phone up and ask why did X teacher shout at my son yesterday lunch time it upset him? (Because he was standing on chairs, being really dangerous and didn't stop after being asked politely several times)

Don't laugh when you are told X child called x teacher a bitch (oh yes well he doesn't really like her)

Don't say oh she's so silly and laugh when told you child deliberately poured paint over herself because she wanted to wear PE kit not uniform.

Parent them properly . Teach them manners. Because if they are out of control at primary, there's no hope at secondary

I coach apprentices through thier degrees and prepare them for end point assessment.

Oh and don't provide them with or pay for a lunch they are not going to eat. Why should we be the ones to make them try new foods. Do it at home. There are a hundred kids in a canteen. We cant sit with yours and encourage them to eat. They will eat nothing and then be hungry and badly behaved all afternoon.

And don't let them bring toys to school because you can't be arsed to have the argument and make them keep it at home and are just trying to make your morning easier.

Instead parents leave it to the teachers so they bring it into classroom, learning time is wasted negotiating it into a bag. Or they play with it disrupting the class or it gets lost and broken and the child and parent kicks off about it!

Stop questioning teacher’s professional judgement. If they’ve given your child a consequence, it’s because they’ve done something they shouldn’t have done. Back us up.

I've been teaching for over 10 years and love my job, but the one thing that really ruins schools are kids who have no respect for boundaries and rules, who usually come from families who do the minimum when it comes to parenting.

Kids that are arrogant and think they're better than others so the rules don't apply to them.

I told a 12 year old to take his hoody off today. His first response was "why?", to which I calmly explained that it wasn't uniform policy, he then said "why should I?", again, I told him it's not school policy. I then told him he needed to either take it off, or accept there would be a consequence. His response was "oh just fuck off" and he walked off. He will be suspended on Monday.

But this is just one of MANY examples of what teachers put up with.

• being filmed
• physically and verbally assaulted
• intimidating behaviour
• breaking up fights
• verbal abuse from parents
• toilets and equipment being smashed up etc...

The list goes on...

And this is a "nice" rural school I teach at!!

On the plus side, most of the kids are amazing, talented, kind individuals. These are the kids that deserve time, attention and rewards, but sadly lots of school money is spent dealing with the minority who will not behave in a respectful manner.

It might take an extra few seconds to add a comment to a red mark

This whole thread of teachers explaining why

a) it isn’t just “an extra few seconds”
b) times the extra minutes by up to 200

and you still don’t get it @TheWonderhorse

You have little respect for teachers’ professional judgement, clearly.

@LittleBigHead
Exactly! All these parents commenting as if their child is the only one you’d have to do this for! The average secondary teacher teaches 5 lessons a day so around 150 students. In my last school there would be a minimum of 8 students per lesson whose behaviour was as so unacceptable that it would need to be recorded. So that’s 40 comments you need to write per day. This can’t be done when you’re teaching (the days of the teacher sitting at a desk marking while the class sits there getting on with work are long gone!) For some of these 40 students, there will also be an electronic report to complete on top of recording the behaviour on the system and certain incidents will undoubtedly require an email to the head of year or a phone call home. Recording behaviour used to take me on average 1-1.5 hours each day, on top of all the other tasks like marking, planning, photocopying, detention duty, meetings etc.

I work with education law as part of my job and have two SEN kids.
Here's a recent email I sent to my kids school:

"Dear Mr. X
Thank you for arranging to meet me. I thought it might help for me to put my concerns in writing, ahead of the meeting so that you are aware of what I plan to raise.

1. I'm a bit concerned that DS is only "working towards" level 2 in literacy and numeracy. Can you advise me on what skills he needs to work on to meet level 2 in a) literacy b) numeracy

1. Would you support the use of adaptations such as typing and a calculator or is there value in working on foundational skills?

1. I find Ds's presentation confusing as he can struggle with seemingly basic tasks but manage more complex things easily. Would you support more assessments.

Eg: for processing speed, dysgraphia and concentration issues?

I'd also like to share some work that Ds has been doing outside of school. Please find some of his writing attached.
I look forward to meeting with you"

Now, this is a potentially awkward and confrontational situation. Reading between the lines, I clearly think that DS is cleverer that they realise. And that I don't think they're doing enough to meet his SEN.

I'm being that parent.

Despite this, the meeting actually went very well. Because:

a) I arranged a meeting rather than ringing up in a state.
b) I let the teacher know what I planned to raise rather than putting him on the spot
c) I framed it all as questions, to create a sense of us working together.

Later on I will write another email to "confirm what we agreed" and create a paper trail. I'll feel a bit of a dick doing this because it will be in a more formal register than either:
a) The (very relaxed and collegiate) meeting we just had and
b) The way parents usually communicate in this very working class school.
And because it will communicate my slight distrust in him following through on what was said.

To make up for it, I will be very friendly and approachable next time we meet in person.

Anyway .. If you want to know how parents can communicate with school: that's what I recommend.

I respect their judgment, but they might as well scrap the behaviour app because as it is it helps nobody.

They already explain positive points (admittedly from preset categories) but don't explain negative ones. Surely the other way around would be better at least? Would a teacher not find it useful to be able to tell parents that their child needs to change something specific about their behaviour?

A red mark could be for wearing their coat in the corridor or backchat or messing around. I have no way to tell unless I ring, which causes more work for the teacher, so am forced to take my child's word for what happened.

Can nobody understand that the current system makes it harder for parents to help correct problem behaviours?

The point is that if parents know then they can work with a teacher to correct the behaviour, with the aim of bringing down the bad behaviour which needs reporting. The medium term reduction in bad behaviour is what I am trying to help with.

If you see a negative behaviour point, discuss it with your child!

@TheWonderhorse
The point is that you’re completely missing my point regarding the enormity of what you are asking.You clearly have no idea how big an issue behaviour is in schools now. It’s simply not possible for a subject teacher to give detailed information on every single incident for every student.
It’s a parents job to ensure that they raise polite and respectful children. No medical condition or diagnosis is an excuse for rudeness. Of course, diagnosed condition can make behaviour more challenging and difficult to manage but it’s still not an excuse. It’s a parent’s job to prepare their child for adult life and to fit in with society, part of this is following rules. No judge is going to say ‘Oh it’s ok Johnny you’ve got ADHD, I won’t give you a prison sentence for stabbing someone. Here’s a biscuit and a hot chocolate!’ There isn’t a magic age where we suddenly are able to deal with consequences.
If my DC ever came home with behaviour points or detention they knew they would be getting a bollocking from me as well, therefore these incidents were rare. It wasn’t the teacher’s job to call me to explain it to me as the behaviour of my children was solely my responsibility as a parent. You obviously fail to realise that half the time teachers call parents, they make every excuse under the sun for their child’s behaviour, falsely claim they are being picked on etc so it’s completely pointless as most parents don’t want to either with the school.

Totally agree. Continuously disruptive children need to be permanently excluded. Inclusion is a nightmare, not just because it is underfunded (it was intended to save money by closing special schools) but also because not every child can be included.

I hope children who threw chairs were permanently excluded. Bloody dangerous.

Children who throw chairs are generally not permanently excluded.

You have to do a bit worse than throw a chair to get excluded 😂

I do! But they could say anything. People on here always insist on speaking to a teacher for their side of a story, but now I can't do that.

I haven't mentioned medical conditions. I don't know what that has to do with me.

But you seem to be saying parents are responsible for all the problems but yet can't be included in the solutions? Information on behaviour is already put on the app, but it's the least useful information. Reasons for red marks are important if you want parents to support behaviour improvement at home. It doesn't have to be hugely detailed, a simple category like Listening/Punctuality/Effort/Respect/Attitude or whatever, so that if my child gets a couple in the same category close together then I could see that pattern and deal with it. They literally already do that for the green marks and tbh I don't need to know how they were good, just that they were. Swapping the categories to the red marks would just mean different work and not more.

@TheWonderhorse
I’m simply saying that unless there is a medical reason or a diagnosed ALN then the behaviour of a child IS entirely down to parents and their parenting so of course they are responsible for the problems!
I agree your suggestions about reasons for the behaviour would be helpful, teachers are just as frustrated at the categories available but they have no say over what is included. These are purchased software programs and generally not editable. So yes, what you are asking for is unrealistic and not possible without being a hugely time consuming exercise. Speak to your child, ask them why they had a negative point! Also don’t believe that they did ‘nothing’. No teacher has time to waste to give points for no reason plus they are only given after warnings.

I do speak to my child, I would just like their explanation of events corroborated. As I've said, I don't see many red marks, DS in year 10 has had three since yr 7, but I was completely at a loss as to what to do about it each time because I only had a colour for information.

As for there being medical diagnoses or bad parents I think that's a little simplistic. Kids can go through or witness trauma, like DV or be bullied which can affect behaviour which isn't necessarily the parents' fault.

Good faith on both sides is the correct starting point in my view, otherwise everyone gets defensive and it all breaks down.