Parents V Teachers

[shoogalypeg]

Whilst I do have some sympathy for teachers in this current climate I can’t help but feel that if you can’t handle the heat then get out of the kitchen, which they’re doing in droves and this leaves mostly hardened, jaded individuals who have no business working with children.

I guess this leads onto a really important question:

What can parents do to improve things that doesn’t involve ignoring unprofessional behaviour from teachers?

YABU - cut teachers some slack/parents are powerless to change the system
YANBU - as a parent I’m worried AND feel I have a part to play

(if neither of the above options fit then please elaborate below)

Good lord. Teacher (F) here (secondary). Agree with quite a bit that's being said, but for the love of God, we've got parents posting wanting to work with us and it's just being thrown back in their faces.

1. I'm a form tutor, I'll reply to parents by email. If they ask for a chat, I'll phone them up for a quick 5 minute check in. On average, this takes me about 15 minutes a week.
2. Obviously, I teach my specialist subject as well. Sometimes a parent will email me asking how their kid is doing and I reply. If they've got specific concerns, or I've got specific concerns, I'll phone them up. This is maybe another 15 minutes a week.

Unless I'm insane, 30 minutes a week out of the 45 hours I work isn't a big deal. I'm at maximum teaching load.

Re: 'the good kids'. Unless we're crap at our job, we all know who they are. I plan lessons that mean they get to stretch themselves. I support them to do this. I've got some kids in my class that are going to get a 2 at GCSE and then I've got some (in the same class) who I'm shoving towards an 8/9. But there again, I'm actually working those 45 hours a week because I haven't always been a teacher and I know what it's like to do 12 hour shifts for the man on minimum wage. Maybe I just look like the type who's not going to take the abuse. Never had a problem with parents.

Oh yeah, and in my school, 50% of the kids are Pupil Premium, and it's not unusual for half my class to be SEN. We're in a massively deprived area of predominantly white working class. It's not exactly a tea party, and we do have our 'big characters', but it's also not the hopeless shit-show I keep seeing being represented.

One of the first poster put it pretty well, ‘nobody expected the kitchen to be on fire’. Mostly for state schools it’s hard unforgiving, thankless work with children / young people who behave appallingly under a system that simply is no longer fit for purpose. So it’s more than a bit trite to pit parents against teachers.

Though of course for me as a mum to a child with SEN there is the constant fear of judgement. I try my very best to help my child develop but you can’t force development. I can’t force my son to understand self- care or communication skills that are age appropriate. I usually overcompensate and whatever support I get from teachers feels like they’ve gone above and beyond the call of duty. I’m terrified of other parents seeing my child and judging me.

I quoted you because I was answering the communication part of your post.
I'm not going to repeat myself but the point stands as written.

This is how things come across to me too. Little experience of things from a teachers perspective but three kids gone through state school a while ago and anyone can see how kids behave today is pretty atrocious. I can't blame teachers for this.

I sat on an exclusion panel recently at a Secondary school
child 1 - parent didn't turn up
Child 2 - nobody turned up
Child 3 - parent turned up late after a teacher went to her home and collected her, just sat and shrugged and said she had 4 other kids so what did we expect her to do?
Child 4- Parent didn't turn up
Child 5 - parent didn't turn up
Child 6 - Parent came (late) and insisted their child was a victim and then shouted at us until they were removed by 2 male PE teachers

Sadly, none of that surprises me

In secondary you have a lot less contact with the parents, and in primary you have a lot more pastoral stuff to handle which is so draining. A lot more violence and bad behaviour is tolerated in primary than secondary. In a small primary school with only 3 or 4 classes there is such a high workload for example I am forced to 'volunteer' 4 lunchtimes a week and every break ,as well as running clubs in primary.

But on the flip side of that the NHS is absolutely on its knees. My GP moved to general practice from mental health because he knew that there was more job security. He saw my son at 4 years old for something completely unrelated and said he thought my son might have autism along with other things. But because of how long the waiting list is for CAMHS he couldn't even think about refering us for diagnosis until my son became an issue in school.
My son wasn't an issue in school so couldn't get referred even though getting him into school was traumatic everyday and they put a special routine in place for him, and he still couldn't read in year 2. His behaviour was fine once he was there. We ended up having to go private to get him help and we left with diagnosis' of ASD, ADHD SPD, dyslexia and hypermobility.

For schools to improve the NHS needs to improve; there were plenty of kids who were causing an issue at school who got seen by CAMHS who's parents were told there wasn't anything wrong with them except bad parenting, but until they get diagnosed or not schools need to put things in place to help the child as if there will be a diagnosis.

I bet you’re one of those parents who has a child who gets into trouble but it’s never their fault- always the teacher’s fault - and your little one is always a saint who never lies or starts the beef.

Anyone else waiting for the 3rd thread installment where OP tries again to get people to agree with her?

Let's face it, your work doesn't exactly give you any experience of the training or professionalism required.

What a profoundly snobbish and unpleasant comment. I hope you aren’t a teacher with an attitude like that.

One of the worst things you can do for your child's education is argue with their teachers...

The irony of this post is that the OP is one of those parents.

It is obvious fron the previous post that you heavily dislike this teacher and are angling for some sort of knock on effect for them(not sure of gender of teacher in otger post).

OP your post comes across and whiny and that you are looking to start a witch hunt against said teacher.

I work in a school and have been encouraged by many to become a teacher. But I say, you coulldn't pay me enough. They don't get paid enough to school some individuals. I enjoy my job as I don't have to deal with the mountains of paperwork as well as tthe petty crap that kids argue about. I work in secondary which makes it easier to be frank with the kids.

Prep your child to be resilient, they have a lifetime of worse than 'bitchy' to deal with. I also agree that kids lie and if you are the type to kick off, she will lie to stay on your side. She is probably worried about being totally honest.

I have an autistic child who was in mainstream and couldn’t manage, thankfully I got him into specialist in year 4 but it was difficult and I had to appeal to tribunal to even get ehcp assessment. Most parents of sen children whose children can’t manage in mainstream don’t want them there but there is often no choice and there is currently a bigger push for keeping kids in mainstream so it’s only going to get worse. Inclusion that we have isn’t actually inclusion though, it’s putting kids in mainstream without adequate support and saying it’s inclusion

@Morph22010 it's so frustrating for parents who know that their child needs more specialist provision. I am glad you finally got the support your child needs with Teachers who are able to support them effectively,

My comment was more in response to the pp who was talking about children who do not have a recognised SEN need.The children who disrupt lessons on purpose to annoy others. The children who actively try to ruin the education of their peers. They often get special privileges such as an earlier lunch, trips out to restaurants/ cinema/ showered with awards in assembly when they did one thing correct on one day out of 365. All so the schools can say they are doing something about something they are actually powerless over. The kids who do the right things the majority of the time and the kids with SEN get overlooked and this can be really frustrating for the kids and staff. It's usually sold to Teachers as inclusion.

I'm speaking about parents who use potential SEN as excuses for their children's behavior. I'm well aware of the waiting list for CAMHS, there are two many children on that list who should not be there unfortunately.

I work with SEN children in a mainstream primary.

everything you have described above (admittedly not quite the language used but not far off in some cases) I’ve seen. Think inner city slap bang in between affluent and not so much.

i’ve been subjected to some quite violent outbursts, I’ve spent hours of my day try to coax a kid around to get told to ‘fuck off’ and today was the final day in a week that started off at fucking horrendous and got progressively worse as the week went on.

OP- i’m not condoning the use of the word, but cut the teacher some slack will you! It’s hideous working with kids some days, as well as all the added pressures of ensuring the children with SEN have their needs met - including planning entirely seperate lessons where appropriate, dealing with OFSTEAD, dealing with parents/disagreements/behaviour/safeguarding and anything and everything else that is thrown at them, as well as them getting 1 morning each week to plan an entire weeks worth of lessons. Everyone thinks working in a school is a jolly because of the time off but the reality is nothing like that!

Home school them, then. You sound utterly ungrateful and clueless.

This is what happens when a parent expresses a desire for meaningful feedback, in order to better support my children's school.

I'm being the sort of parent I should be, just with the cheek to have an opinion about what might help. Make a suggestion and get told to home educate. This is where we are.

And you sound defensive and ill mannered.

And this is partly why teachers are leaving in droves - a prime example of the negativity and poor parenting we face, day in day out. God help the country when there is no one left.

And this is called projection. Take responsibility for your rudeness and defensiveness to what was very balanced, polite feedback 🙂

What exactly do you mean by 'meaningful feedback'? What do you want that your 'bland' reward system and parents evenings twice a year and written reports three times a year and any additional phone calls/emails/quick chats at pick up or drop off don't give you? How often do you want this meaningful feedback? How long will it take for the teacher to supply this meaningful feedback (gathering data/anecdotes. Checking it. Communicating it. Replying to your comments...)

Then times it by 30+.
Or 250+ for secondary.

You respectfully raised some valid points.

My word. I've explained all of this already in previous posts. I don't get all the things you're listing, and I have explained that too. I get two reports, the first one is a set of marks and nothing to do with behaviour. The second one is good but it's at the end of the year and a bit late. We get one parents evening which is a five minute appointment per teacher, they are always behind because rooms are often a 5 minute walk from each other. Also the children make the appointments and I know they could easily say Mr Evans wasn't available if there was something they didn't want me to hear. I am talking about secondary school. If I have a problem then I am to email reception and they forward the email to the appropriate head, I can't directly contact a teacher.

What I'm saying is that it would enable parents to support teachers better if we knew what the problems were. I have never been called in about behaviour, but my boy had a couple of red marks (he's year 10 and has had I think three in his 3.5 years). But none of those came with an explanation as to what happened. So I get his side of the story, and nothing to act on from the teacher. Who my children are as people is much more important than what mark they get in geography. I am keen to make sure they're respectful and kind and prepared to put a shift in at school. I am trying to help. It might take an extra few seconds to add a comment to a red mark but if it gives parents the tools to help improve behaviour in the classroom then teachers will have less to do in the long run and the job might be a little less difficult. I don't see what's so offensive about what I'm saying.