Parents V Teachers

[shoogalypeg]

Whilst I do have some sympathy for teachers in this current climate I can’t help but feel that if you can’t handle the heat then get out of the kitchen, which they’re doing in droves and this leaves mostly hardened, jaded individuals who have no business working with children.

I guess this leads onto a really important question:

What can parents do to improve things that doesn’t involve ignoring unprofessional behaviour from teachers?

YABU - cut teachers some slack/parents are powerless to change the system
YANBU - as a parent I’m worried AND feel I have a part to play

(if neither of the above options fit then please elaborate below)

I see a lot of parent blaming for behaviour in schools, parents being called feral and complaints that parents aren't parenting. I think the vast majority are doing what they can, the same as teachers are.

I find that school are definitely less prepared to communicate directly, and people having to make an appointment. Parents evening is essentially a five minute listening session, there aren't time for questions.

As for the coat, my kids don't want to wear the school coloured, school logoed coat out with their friends, that's totally fair enough.

My children do have good teachers who I support, but direct engagement between parents and teachers is limited so working together is hard. I have no idea what teachers think of my kids, they have a very bland merit system on an app where they give them points for respect and stuff, but there are only four categories, it's hardly a replacement for conversation. I don't feel like I know what goes on in there at all and I feel like that's been a conscious decision not made by me. Nothing is explained, we get instructions and informed of the minimum required for compliance. I think schools are too big tbh.

I don't think it's really parents that are the issue. The big challenges for teachers are the number of Sen kids in their classes and lack of support for those children and the sheer work load on top of the teaching itself. Also unsupportive slt can be a big factor.

Your brain works weird.

I was shocked at parents being called feral and accused of not parenting.

I said that I do almost all of the list, and explained my difficulties with some of them but my children are bright and kind and good.

But thank you for displaying the dismissive attitude at a parent's concerns about schooling that I feared I would.

@TheWonderhorse

What communication would you like? Appointments are fair enough really. Teachers are teaching and not always available for long ad hoc chats.

It's fair enough that your children don't want to wear a coat with the school logo but it's also fair enough that a school states a particular coat.

Surely it's just one of those things you accept as a parent? Sometimes we need a uniform for things. Football, ballet, it's quite standard.

I would like to know who my kids' teachers are. I would like parents evening to be long enough to be useful, I would like that instead of an app behaviour record, for a couple of word comments on the days when they've done something unhelpful or especially good. A quick, "talking too much" or "good energy" would be much more helpful. Or even "please work on x."

At the minute parents get nothing, so we genuinely don't know what's happening in school, yet are held responsible for behaviour we often don't see at home. I'm not talking about me, my children have no behaviour issues in school but there's a disconnect because of barriers put in place by schools themselves. Note I am using the word school not teachers, I don't blame teachers, I'm just stating that I think more direct communication is helpful and would help parents and teachers to work together to correct issues they have.

A football kit is necessary. The coat is really not. Uniform is so expensive and they grow so quick. I disagree that it's fair enough. It's silly, and against government guidance actually.

The problem with "talking too much" is that it's non specific. When you try to talk to a lower primary aged child about it, they won't have a clue. So then you're into a couple of sentences per child, which becomes a daily expectation and isn't really necessary.

If the teacher has a problem, they should be in touch with home.

Age 8 my DC would have thought of bitch as a swear word, so a teacher saying that would have felt much harsher than perhaps intended.

@TheWonderhorse

Uniform is against government guidance?

Ultimately if you don't like the uniform policy then you have the choice to move schools.

I don't agree a football kit is fair enough. Normal shorts and T shirts would suffice. With the addition of shin pads.

If I choose to send my children to school, football, ballet or wherever a uniform is required then I buy it.

OP it’s not ‘parents V teachers’ it’s the government’s fault for making the education system too political with ridiculous inspections, crazy attendance rules, unrealistic expectations for results and for imposing an out of date curriculum on schools.

Turn your attention to that if you want to do something. Write to the department of education or the education secretary. Don’t scapegoat teachers or parents for the failures of the system and the environment everyone is doing their best in (generally speaking - my exception being SLTs who go along with the ridiculous system like a bunch of sycophants with Stockholm Syndrome. They should rise up and speak up).

OK - but for those of us whose children attend state schools but don't behave like that (but absolutely do experience the negative effects of being in contact with that behaviour) - what do you suggest we do?

You left because nobody did anything about the behaviour... Our kids sometimes actually can't leave.

If you live in an area with zero spare school places and parents who both work therefore home education is not an option, you literally have no choice you cannot pull your kids out.

At least you as the teacher have the option of leaving to protect yourself - what can we as parents do to protect our children in this situation except desperately try and hold the school to account?

Please - I really do want teachers to explain how we as parents handle the above situation for the benefit of our kids?

Bizarrely I used to have to do a 20 minute talk on why you should only black ball point pens and only write inside the lines/boxes during GCSE exams, due to a parental complaint about missing work/marks.

Yes I agree. No one ever says what the offer is for well behaved children. Particularly if they are bright well behaved children.

It’s also why I don’t agree with the changes to VAT on private schools. How can you say on one hand that this kind of behaviour is normalised and out of control but begrudge people paying to avoid it?

I’d have found the strict behaviour policy schools or those schools with out of control behaviour horrific as a child. Imagine if you’re a child with mild learning difficulties trying to learn around this. How do these children meet their potential?

Government guidance in Wales recommends that logo items are kept to a minimum to allow parents to buy cheaper alternatives where possible.

https://www.gov.wales/school-uniform-and-appearance-policy-guidance-governing-bodies-wg23-17-html

The difference with school uniform is its not compulsory to do football, or ballet. It's very feasible that families might keep a child home on a cold day instead of sending him/her in the wrong coat because then it might be detention for something out of the child's control.

There’s not a single teacher on earth who would disgree with your comment here. It’s the most utterly painful part of a teachers job knowing that the students who work hard, are kind, well/behaved, do everything right etc. have their education ruined day in and out because the bottom quintile of the school population make life hell for everyone.

The government need to stop penalising schools for disciplining or excluding children. Exclusion is absolutely necessary to keep students and staff safe and have a conductive learning environment. When I was younger, swearing at a teacher would get you automatically expelled. Now, not even stabbing a teacher probably would. I’ve heard of children getting strangled, pregnant teachers being pushed down the stairs and forced to be in the same class still as their tormentors.

Take away any sort of penalising or hefty fines or downgrading by Ofsted for excluding children. Why should schools be fined through the nose for wanting to keep their students and staff safe? It should be the opposite! This progressive/inclusive/no child left behind/restorative/trauma-based/“all behaviour is communication” nonsense ideology peddled by educational psychologists and the DofE but loathed by teachers has a lot to answer for. It’s entirely unreflective of the reality of the classroom and I am sick of watching the masses suffer because of having to be legally forced to pander to the few.

You could parent your children so they behave well or you can choose a school that has rules you are happy with. Alternatively, you can home educate.

I would like to know who my kids' teachers are. I would like parents evening to be long enough to be useful, I would like that instead of an app behaviour record, for a couple of word comments on the days when they've done something unhelpful or especially good. A quick, "talking too much" or "good energy" would be much more helpful. Or even "please work on x."

If your DC are in secondary school, in classes of 30 to 40 children, with several teachers across up to 8 or 9 subjects - just do the arithmetic! Each teacher would be making these "couple of word comments" on maybe 100 pupils each day.

What is your job/profession @TheWonderhorse ? Do you "know" the parents or family of your clients or customers? Do they "know" you as a person? Do you "know" your doctor?

I think you have a very unrealistic notion of what being a teacher is like. And it's also oddly intrusive and demanding.

Teachers have a professional knowledge of the children they teach. It's not the same as a personal knowledge of those children. You need to understand the difference - a teacher is not an alternative parent for your DC.

I don't expect teachers to do anything more than they already do. So sometimes (not always) children are given green or red points according to their behaviour on an App. But that's really vague. So when a child is receiving them (not even close to every child in every lesson! My kids get 2 or 3 a week) it would help if they explained why just so that parents know what's going on in school and what to work on at home.

I don't understand why it's considered demanding to care. I think if parents had that information then they could support teachers better. Which is the point of this thread. Why is what I've said about school policy causing you to question my parenting and assume that I'm trying to outsource any of that. I'm trying to do the opposite, is that not obvious?

I'm a carpet cleaner, I do get to know my customers as best I can because that enables me to do my job better. If that makes any difference to the point I'm making.

But that's really vague

So is "stop talking". Anything more concrete needs a few sentences, taking time.

It's considerably less vague than a red mark. And crucially, something parents can use.

Parents could probably use their child having a qualified teacher actually teaching them. At some point they'll realise that ridiculous workload demands and having a qualified teacher for their child is an either/or situation.

What are you and other parents who think like you intending to do when all the teachers who are fed up leave, and your children have no teachers?

So many parents seem to think that behind every teacher who is fed up of being assaulted at work, stands a willing replacement who will do the job with a smile and never complain. In reality, the number of teacher shortages grows every year.

Be careful what you wish for…

I don't understand this. Teachers are saying they want more from parents and here's me asking for something to work with. Something which is what they already do but a bit different and I'm giving ridiculous workload demands?

I'll say it again. The point of my suggestion is to reduce the workload on teachers.

"Do a majority of these parents with challenging children have those manners to impart? Or are they themselves insecure, volatile, lacking in intelligence, common sense, perhaps trapped by circumstances."

IME, no, they don't have these skills to impart. I will be meeting next week with a parent whose child demanded to move classes, refused to accept this is not an instantaneous process, stormed off, then used her phone (we are a phones off in bags school) to call mum, who rocked up, sobbing, demanding to see the Head. Screamed at the receptionist, effing and blinding, banging on the door into the school, threatening to call the police. Which we encouraged her to do (she had enough cognisance to realise she would be the one in trouble, so declined).

She was sent away, as head refused to engage. Child will have a day in internal exclusion for breaking phone policy. Honestly, I'd put the mum in with her if I could. Emotional maturity of a six year old, yet she is raising a child

The point of my suggestion is to reduce the workload on teachers.

And teachers have told you this wouldn't reduce their workload. I suspect that you have no idea of the range & variety of demands on teachers. Let's face it, your work doesn't exactly give you any experience of the training or professionalism required.

Teachers are asking that parents do what used to be absolutely normal: raise their children to behave well, control their more anti-social impulses, notice others and be aware of others' needs, have some respect for others, and not expect that their every whim will be satisfied.

Oh, and don't physically or verbally attack others around you.

That is, teachers would like parents to parent.

A parent removed their child from school and put in a formal complaint about me once.

I gave their child detention (as per policy), after they didn't complete their homework. The parent argued that it wasn't the child's fault they were behind on work. It absolutely wasn't the child's fault, parent was correct, it was in fact their's.

Said child had been taken on holiday, and been back a week before this was due in...

Teachers are not the issue, OP. Children aren't even the issue really. The issue is parents not doing their job properly, if at all.