to think I can't afford to have children?

[HildegardVonBingham]

Hi all,

I will try and keep this short. This is as much a social mobility q as anything else, really.

My partner and I live in London in a rented flat. She works in the public sector and I am a trainee solicitor. I am 30, I used to work in FS.

I'm at a mid-tier firm, and don't intend to qualify into a corporate seat. But if I qualify as planned - into private client or something a bit less gruelling - I should still earn what would be a good salary anywhere else in the country - c.£70-80k. Today I sat down and did the maths on how much it would cost me and my partner to buy a two-bedroom flat, as we'd like to try and have a baby a couple of years after I qualify (this isn't factoring in the cost of IVF, sperm donor etc... we have loads of gay male friends...)

Neither of us have family money behind us, and it would cost us c.£2k per month to buy a two bedroom flat on c.90% LTV. It seems manageable on paper. I then looked at nursery fees in London (c.£1600 per month), how much tax I'd be paying, the fact that you're basically ineligible for any kind of state child support at past c.£60k. I thought about the fact that I work loads now and that if we wanted more money I'd have to try and move somewhere where I'd have to work literally every hour god sends, which sort of defeats the point of having a partner and child. With a mortgage and childcare we would be 'on' c.£700 per month less than we are now, even with my benchmark post-qual salary. This would not be manageable as I find things quite tight as is.

I'm not asking for sympathy because I know I'm lucky but however I try and square it, it's not feasible for two young professionals in London to buy a flat and have one child without either family money or one partner on a monster salary. For a monster salary, you have to work monster hours - and so then you don't see your family.

Again, I know I'm lucky, but the whole thing makes me feel a bit despondent. My mum had to work two jobs when I was small, and we always worried about money. My dad lost all his money getting divorced twice. I really want to be able to have just one child but increasingly I think I would rather have none at all than have one and bring them up in financial precarity / insecure housing. I know some people would say that we should leave London, but all our friends are here and we both love it.

AIBU to worry that I can't afford to have kids? Putting hard hat on as have seen that some threads like this don't go down well.

My advice would be to move out of London.

Have you calculated the childcare costs using the government funded hours (I think these start at 9mo) and the tax free childcare?

It's good that you are doing the maths now.

Is your current rental a 2bed?

It's all a choice. You can choose to move out of London. Life is all about choices.

You will get government support. Tax free childcare and funded hours reduce the cost by a lot. You have a few years to save up but I think would be doable, you just need to change some of your spending habits.

Government funded hours will make things easier, but we ended up with some childcare debt, but that phase isn't that long, you may have to accept some debt then pay it off once your childcare-free.

You obviously can afford children, you just face to make some changes/sacrifices somewhere.

I’m in a same sex relationship also. My wife & I also live in London. We still rent - we prioritised having children over buying property. I think you’re deeping it too much. Hundreds of thousands of people have children & bring them up in rented accommodation. You can’t necessarily have everything you want all at once so you just need to prioritise what is more important to you personally. We’re now saving for a house but I don’t regret having a daughter first & we have a great life on a lower salary than you.

Broadly speaking, I agree.

But there really is something wrong that a professional couple cannot afford both a modest home and a single child in the Borough of London. Somethings gone wrong with our society.

To everyone saying move out of London - we would both earn substantially less outside of London, and the cost of commuting into London from the (very expensive) commuter belt more or less wipes out any savings on mortgage / rent...

OP, something to start this paycheck is to save save save as much as you can. Try living on your "700pcm" less and see what it's like - if nothing else it puts that money in the bank for savings for maternity leave and childcare

Thank you @JimHalpertsWife these are all very useful comments!

Presumably there are people living in London, earning far, far less than what you’ve quoted and still managing to have children?

If renting is cheaper than the mortgage payment, rent until the child starts school.
Otherwise, you could consider coparenting instead of just donation.

How much does your partner earn? It’s perfectly possible for two professionals to have a flat and children in London. We did it, so did my friends, no parental help. It’s a struggle to begin with but your mortgage will go down and your wages will increase.

That salary seems low for London? £70k is about what senior associates are on in the Scottish offices of my mid-tier firm. I would have thought your earning capacity in London would be a good deal higher.

Would you consider moving out of London? You could work for a really decent firm in Bristol / Manchester / Leeds / Liverpool and have much lower living costs.

We extended the term of our mortgage when we had young children (I wanted to stay at home with them for the first couple of years), and we muddled through!
now have a long mortgage but we can pay it off much more easily as our youngest is just finishing uni.
can you calculate using the longest term possible?
also, we built up debt for cars and holidays - it’s all long paid off now.

What is your and your dps combined wage?

You'll get funded hours, which will bring your childcare costs down.

I recommend you see the nursery years as an investment. It's easy to get scared and think it's forever, but realistically it's between 3 and 4 years and can be planned/saved for. Maybe you decide not to buy a flat until after the nursery years are over - that's okay too.

It's all choices. You can definitely afford it, and do it, but it may mean compromising on housing/moving further out/you or your partner looks to increase income.

Having children is expensive. Very expensive, and it gets worse the older they get!
Its a matter of priorities, if you really really wanted a baby, money wouldn’t be the be all and end all.
You could move up north, get a different job, new friends etc, but to you London and disposable income is coming first. And thats fine. It may change in time, but there is always a choice and a sacrifice to be made in most situations. There is nothing wrong with being childfree either if thats what you decide.

You have to look at your expenses. I find it hard to imagine that things are tight on two high salaries, even in London. Two years ago I was on 35k, paying rent on one bed flat, gym membership, cinema membership, nights out and still saved £200 month. There are two of you and you alone earn double what I did. So clearly, there is a bit to trim off your spending but it's not a priority for you. It's ok but just say that. There is no need to claim poverty.

I think with tax free childcare/funded hours it will be doable.

2k a month on a mortgage would get you a house in commuting distance of London (and possibly slightly cheaper nursery fees).

Have you seen the price of childcare these days?

How much less though? You do need to be willing to take a lifestyle change though when you have children, they are and always have been expensive so you will need to work out what you prioritize more, having children or having the London lifestyle you do now. We also have to make choices about priorities. We’re in the South East, two decent but in no way monster salaries and we have a good life. We couldn’t afford to live in London. Unless one of you earns more than £100k you’ll get help with childcare fees.

No one can afford to have children, you just change and manage. Lots of people commuting to London (or any bigger city) do a mix of working from home days too. You go out at night a lot less. You wear supermarket clothes. You buy second hand baby items. If you don't want the compromises then don't have children and keep up your cosmopolitan lifestyle. There is nothing wrong with prioritising other things you enjoy.

Don’t worry about your friends. Once you have kids you will hardly have time to see them anyway. So whether you move away from London is immaterial (and I too would recommend doing that).