Killer claims to be ill

[Galatine]

According to the BBC Axel Rudakubana is shouting in court that he is ill.
AIBU to say I couldn’t give a shit!

The defence, despite having access to the best psychiatrists, presented no psychiatric reports,

I believe they offered no mitigation to the judge when sentencing. Mitigation is normal in most cases, the defence offer mitigating factors for the judge to consider "she relies on her car to take her disabled kids to hospital appointments so please don't ban her for drink driving".

for the defence barrister, an extremely well respected and eminent silk, not to have done this means there can have been nothing to say. The absence of both the above leads to only one conclusion, that being that no psychiatrist was prepared to say there is anything wrong with him. Thus I stand by my conclusion there is nothing wrong with his mental faculties.

I guess she was basing her comments on the fact that psychiatrists, including for the defence, didn't find any evidence of any mental illness. And his own barrister saying that he basically couldn't come up with any mitigation.

But I guess you're in the terribly objective camp of "well, he must be ill, mustn't he, it's obvious innit!".

Yes totally agree. That's why I felt his Autism diagnosis was relevant. But what support for that and co occurring MH issues and/or disordered personality there was, little I doubt. What could they have offered even with all the resources that are currently lacking? Maybe not very much.

Really?

If my DS was behaving the way that one was, I would not hesitate to overpower him using force. And you know what, if I was the one who was stabbed, so be it. Rather me than innocent children.

Everyone who feels they're justified in excusing his parents are as bad as they are. How did he purchase the weapons he had? Why did they not call police? Why did they not warn Prevent what they had found? How did he get access to the material he did? I still check my teens phone-I pay for it, they live in my house so I check. It's called basic parenting and these two failed abysmally.

Stop trying to excuse shit parenting.

Don’t be silly. This is not an intelligent response. Can you show me please where I excused ‘shit parenting’?

I meant talk me through how you as a parent, would get your child admitted to psych care. How exactly?

And you overpower him, he is on the floor at home, and then what happens? Be clear.

I agree. There are four hostels and halfway houses on my street and there are always the same uncared for people wandering around screaming, crying, shouting or just completely unable to care for themselves. For years.

I don't think he will live a very long time. I give it a few months.

Indeed ! Didn’t the Nottingham killer attend the university of Nottingham himself previously. So that comment was nonsense.

Criminally insane just means the person was unable to tell right from wrong.

No we can't which is why we need to hear what comes out regards the family. We are all speculating to some degree really.

What I don't understand is being seen to defend the indefensible. Apologies can't recall who said that.
There is no search for defending the guy responsible in any way. That's not what posters are doing in their questioning of his disordered state of mind or highlighting the limited support available to parents when they say ' help!!'. Maybe they didn't do enough but to be entirely culpable at this stage based on what we know so far. No way.

I wouldn't want this guy nor the apparently tickety boo just a bit evil Jeffrey Dahmer as my next door neighbour just to be very clear!

I really don't mean to minimise the extreme suffering of the victims and families in this case by calling it a debate, and without acknowledging the extreme pain on the side of the victims. This isn't sport. It's a society trying to discuss and understand how this happened and what could help stop it happening again. Legally, societally, morally.

I know someone today was allowed to further impact the victims of his crimes by disrupting and refusing to participate in his sentencing. Lucy Letby's sentencing debacle (which is NOT a topic for debate I am trying to start) was supposed to bring about change for this, by forcing perpetrators to hear the impact statements and statements of the judge. I'm sad we haven't found a way to make that happen yet, because that young man was most certainly guilty by his own admission and deserved to hear those parents speak, for their sake. And maybe his, who knows. He's a disturbed man, with societally unacceptable views. The best place for him is away from us, and that happened today. He won't be released before he's too old to be of harm.

That's tricky. That is also quite simplistic. This to me rules out alot of terrifying people who are quite clearly disordered in their thinking! Many of them know right from wrong practically but just do not feel it, understand it or relate to it.

This kid feels nothing, that is so obvious. That's not typical and I don't care what happened in court.

There used to be ''Mental Hospitals'' - they looked quite pleasant, nice grounds, like the Holloway Sanatorium pictured ‘for the care and treatment of the insane of the upper and middle classes’

These have all closed, but even the less attractive hospitals were a place of sanctuary for some of the people who lived in them.

Fed, looked after, much better than a shitty ''Halfway house''.

Before I came here I read a newspaper article that stated his parents called the police four times within a six month period two years before the attack.

Unfortunately I know both adults who have been a caught up in the mental health system and people who work in it, it is a fucking joke. The police can do their job and contact the relevant agencies but it goes nowhere.

@MrsSchrute you posted about Norway and a lower number of years so why do you say at no point do you question the decision of the judge?

We are a democracy not a dictatorship.

We cannot, as a society, force perpetrators to attend their sentencing.

Why is this disgusting? I totally agree.

He does seem to be the definition of a psychopath.

Those places were used to lock up sane women for not adhering to society's standards at the time.

This is really concerning.

Maybe there just aren't the placements.

A woman I know spent time as a teenager at Bethlem {?} Royal mental home and said she was very happy there.
She was a peaceful girl though - not violent in any way.

@Reugny
It's not dictatorial to force offenders to comply with humane rules beyond those expected of people who haven't committed crimes? That is imprisonment. Complying with the punishment attached to the crime. Expecting an offender to hear the impact of those crimes, especially when they've plead guilty? I'm sorry, that's a position so far on the left there is no oxygen to debate it.

How do you know?

There was no psychiatric assessment of him.

And be grateful he didn't end up in one of the prison mental hospitals.

Because we don't live in Norway!

In my opinion long sentences are not an effective deterrent, and I think the arguments for hugely decreasing the size of the prison estate are very compelling. However that is getting off topic.

I am not even vaguely qualified to question the decision of a judge who has had many many years of training and experience and studying the law. He also knows far far more about the specifics of this case than I do. L

... It's the "hardened" criminals who have the least tolerance and sympathy for people like him...

When someone is shouting and screaming how are you going to force them to attend their sentencing?

Are you going to gag them? And tie them down?