Killer claims to be ill

[Galatine]

According to the BBC Axel Rudakubana is shouting in court that he is ill.
AIBU to say I couldn’t give a shit!

I don’t think anyone who did what he did, would be though.

I think the length of time is important. Not even as a deterrent (because 21 years would be a joke for this sort of crime!) but because why should someone like him ever be free again. Hes shown he’s not capable of operating in society without extreme violence. We don’t need to check.

I think she's talking about intergenerational trauma. Our roots aren't always in the place we're born.

The calls were from social services who didn't feel safe in the home.

His father admitted recently he found his detailed plans to commit mass murder at his school. Why did he not have him placed in psychiatric care? He was a black belt at karate, I'm sure he could've easily over powered him.

Put simply, he didn't bother. I would think he didn't want to attract too much scrutiny as there are questions on his honesty about his behaviour before coming to the UK. It sounds like the apple didn't fall far from the tree so to speak.

If I was the police, I would be keeping a close eye on the other child they have. If that male was able to buy a huge weapons stash and have ricin in the home, then I believe they knew and did nothing to stop it. They are culpable. They should be charged with assisting an offender.

Do you have to be over 21 in a shop to buy a knife? Even with fake ID he would look young when signing for parcels.

I had a parcel delivered by an Amazon bloke- he knocked the door, I took the parcel he then snatched the parcel from my hand- and demanded a passport.

It was a pair of blunt ended household scissors ordered in my name, bought to make up the ''free postage'' limit.

I'm CLEARLY well over 18, and this driver was just being a complete pain in the ass.

Yet they sell zombie knives to teenagers? it's obscene.

They target the easy target middle aged mothers to show they are being ''compliant'' with the blade legislation.

I don't have the professional experience or training to be able to assess that. And neither I suspect do you.

The parents in that case were jailed not merely for ignoring their sons worsening mental state but also buying him the guns used to commit the attack.

That’s not the same.

52 years - good. Prison is going to be hell on earth for him 🙌

Fireworks are going off here. All day the police presence has been high. Hope he rots in hell. One of the victims is related to someone in my extended family.

With any luck, it's terminal.

No one with any sense would want to take a chance of someone as dangerous as this to be ever let loose in society again.

It is doubtful he will ever be ''rehabilitated''.

It's not like he's a thief who is funding a drink or drugs addiction, where rehabilitation is possible, this is a very dangerous and violent individual who never needs to see the light of day again for the good of society as a whole.

Strange, I'm hearing fireworks too....

Does that not suggest to you that someone else took delivery of Axel’s various weapons?

How do you have someone placed in psychiatric care?

No, he ordered them using ''Identity hiding software'' according to news.
Amazon also deliver to those ''garage lockers'' which might be accessible without ID.

I don’t need to be a professional. I’ve seen what he’s done already. No one in their right mind would let him out. He committed the crime so now he has the time to serve. It’s not like he was a shoplifter!

I don't really see the point of looking at Norway as the right way to handle crime, lovely though it might be. It's a country with a tiny population (I've just googled, it's only about 5 million people). It's a very wealthy, homogeneous, high trust society which is also very conformist and socially rigid. (Yes, I've spent time in Norway, and it kind of felt like how I'd imagine village life in the 1950s.) And actually, although Anders Breivik was only sentenced to the maximum of 21 years, I think there are mechanisms to ensure he wouldn't actually be released after 21 years. And his sentence did cause a lot of controversy (understandably), even in Norway.

Thinking that giving sentences like 21 years to people like AR would improve safety in this country is just a total fantasy. Giving short sentences for crimes like this one won't magically turn the UK into Norway.

Btw, do you think Japan is a civilised country? They have a very low crime rate, and a similarly high trust and conformist society to Norway, but they have a completely different legal system - and one that would probably horrify you, tbh.

52 years sounds about right for this sort of crime. Look at all the lives he's ruined. 21 years would be farcical.

The family were an ordinary family, the brother a student at a Russell group university. We have to accept that we have a problem in our society.

Why did he not have him placed in psychiatric care? He was a black belt at karate, I'm sure he could've easily over powered him.

Can you talk me through how this would work?

As far as I'm concerned whatever happens now is going to involve him being put away for his whole life. I don't really care how he's treated, just that he's away from people.

I don't really understand all the people wishing him dead. His life is over. People who commit these sorts of crimes are not bothered by harsh punishment as a deterrent. They don't give a shit about anything at all. He's missing vital parts of a human.

It's like asking a machine to say sorry, or to feel guilt. He doesn't have the capacity for that clearly, if he's alright with mutilating children.

What we need to focus on is intervention and put all this horror and disgust into making it better. Perhaps if we could refer violent children to assess them for markers which point to this sort of crime and if they're ticking those boxes then they get sectioned?

I know this means spending a fortune on an approach that works, but it's a fortune that could have saved those girls.

What’s your agenda in all this? You’ve dominated this thread with your hundreds of comments deflecting blame from the perpetrator, his parents and the various government bodies that allowed this to happen.

I mean, why? How have you even got the energy to bother? Do you really feel that strongly about it?

@JHound
Please find someone else to vent your spleen on. I was replying to a specific example, in particular a case I know very well.

How do you know it isn't the same, isn't that the point of an investigation? Which there hasn't been. There was knowledge of risk, of weapons, of malicious intent, of instability.

The reason the crumbley case was so significant is it find a new aspect to culpability in a country where weapon ownership is common; simply having a gun and encouraging its use is NOT a red flag in this part of the world.

Ethan Crumbley was born and raised in a state where the vast majority had guns, hunted as a leisure activity, and access to guns was not a red flag. I was the first to say the two cases are not the same in their context. The potential however, that parents bear some responsibility for the actions of minors, whilst the minors have reduced sentences for being minors, is not necessarily unpalatable, if it is proven there was enough evidence to facilitate a charge. That is the legal system.

As an aside, I know on certain orders amazon require proof of photographic id(alcohol and knives for definite) but I can't be the only one who more often than not just gets asked for their date of birth by the amazon driver. I think in the the last 5 years I think it's been only once where one has been a real stickler and wouldn't hand it over without Id being seen by him.

Surely they need to go further and have a trigger point where a certain amount of things that could be used as weapons ordered within a period of 18m / 2 years is reported to police and the person receives a visit or a background check?

I am aware that that wouldn't stop it as they would just purchase them from different places and only one is required after all if someone is really determined or he could have just removed knives from the household but with this case the sheer amount the boy was ordering weapon wise... One would imagine a parent is just accepting the order and giving their dob but wouldn't you question it? Or look what they're ordering when they already knew he had a history of carrying knives and had been charged with it when 13?

To be fair he could have just used his dad's ID and I doubt any Amazon delivery driver, pressed as they are with so many deliveries, would have challenged him.