Killer claims to be ill

[Galatine]

According to the BBC Axel Rudakubana is shouting in court that he is ill.
AIBU to say I couldn’t give a shit!

This might not be a popular thing to say, but here goes -

Is anyone else concerned about potential mental health issues/ unresolved trauma that may well become apparent years down the line for many male asylum seekers? And yes, I know he was born here, but his parents weren't.

This guys parents fled genocide in Rwanda.

There have been other cases in this country where asylum seekers have attacked/ killed people, and there has been talk of trauma that they experienced due to genocide/ wars in their home countries.

The reality is that our mental health services are seriously underfunded for our own young people. We can throw money at the NHS, and it doesn't touch the sides. It's not fit for purpose.

So, as well as housing, clothing, feeding, educating, and free health care, are we also going to need to set money aside for their mental health?

Otherwise, we can expect to see more and more Southports?

Maybe because it’s the RNLI that pick them up.
What’s your point?

And yet the Times is reporting that it is already being appealed for being too lenient.

In the absence of a whole life term, I don't think you can get any less lenient than locking him up until he's 70. And then he won't be released. And he may not even survive that long. I think it's an adequate sentence within the confines of the law.

This was a carefully planned attack. I'd be amazed if the timing of it to just before his 18th birthday, so he wouldn't be tried as an adult, wasn't as deliberately planned as the rest of it. Of course, the judge can only sentence following the rules, so it seems he did the best he could under the constraints he faced.

I think people cling to the mental health because it provides a 'reason' to the otherwise unfathomable.

But the defence did not submit any psychiatric report as part of mitigation. There is no evidence that mental health was a significant factor.

Otherwise, we can expect to see more and more Southports

There's been a similar case in Germany just this week - by an asylum seeker.

No education system or mental health system is going to help some evil little fuck who stabs little girls over 100 times and much worse that I won’t mention here. He doesn’t need rehabilitation he needs to rot in jail, in a cold damp cell with no mattress and a bucket as his toilet for the rest of his life. Some people are just pure evil! It’s namby pambing round these evil little fucks that contributes to society getting worse.

We need to start cracking down hard - he should have already been doing 15 years for taking a knife to school age 13. We need to stop treating criminals as victims and make them petrified to even think about committing a crime.

This past week some equally evil little fuck aged 14 has been arrested for attacking 3 70/80’yrar olds and murdering a 12 year old walking home from school..no doubt some do gooder will rock up and say this 14 year old just needs some hugs, therapy and some life opportunities. I think the time for that shit has passed.

Anyone carrying a knife should get 15 years and come out of jail too scared to even look at a policeman.

@TinklySnail@TinklySnail um my point is that trying to keep an eye on hone grown terror threats as well as trying to monitor new comers in their 1000s must be hard.

Jessie I agree..
Many young men are from troubled countries.

Yes there are some people who are just evil. Not mentally ill. Simply evil. Fortunately they are few and far between - otherwise this sort of case wouldn't shock us.

Anyone carrying a knife should get 15 years and come out of jail too scared to even look at a policeman

Yes.

Also the Nottingham case.

I think we need a sensible discussion on the mental health element in this case. Of course not everyone with MH is a potential violent criminal but in terms of extreme violence and the neurodiversity, there does seem to be a mix that potentially made his worldview abnormal.

And yes, the majority of MH or ND are not violent - hence understanding why it happened here is important.

Ignoring it or denying it could mean fewer funds going to needed services such as CAMHS.

Yep. The kid is ill. He is very very ill. What sort of full assessments has he actually had? Typical people don't do this. And it does matter really because he won't be the only one with these concerning flags and interests who will have zero access to any psychological support services or organisations - because they've been obliterated over the last 15 years.

If he isn't mentally unwell according to the defined mental illnesses we have then he's at least personality disordered, sociopathic, psychopathic. I don't know what the dad could have done there.

There were lots of flags leading up to this. We aren't letting anyone off the hook by accepting that the kid is off his nut.

Totally agree. This is the crux of it all.

There seems to have been a lot all over Europe. Politicians didn't seem to take these potential issues into account, and I think we're now seeing whats to come.

Because it’s a charity that usually picks them up. Not our forces.
You’re saying ‘1000s’ again. At no point have I said 1000s.
So what is your point?

Yes, I suspect there's plenty more to come. Allowing thousands of unknowns into the country will make sure of that.

He will have been very thoroughly assessed by multiple psychiatrists while in custody, including psychiatrists chosen by his defence team. There has been zero evidence given by the defence that he is ill, let alone "very, very ill".

Sane people can do hideous, sadistic things.

Unfortunately not, and misogyny is not considered a hate crime.

The lives of women and girls are valued less.

Absolutely this. The only meaningful mitigation in these horrific cases is psychiatric illness. The defence barrister would have explored every possible diagnosis with experts. The fact that nothing was found, no psychiatric report submitted in evidence - and in fact, R’s KC admitted he had “very little” to plead in mitigation - tells us all we need to know about this freakshow.

We haven't had a statement saying that he has been assessed, I don't think. Most assessments have to have some level of engagement and maybe the assessor (presumably psychiatrist) did not feel able to carry out an assessment if non-engaging?

I think it would be useful to know if he has had an attempted assessment and if it was abandoned.

My definition of 'ill' might fall out of defined mental illnesses within the DSM ( think that's the right manual).

People can be very evil. Something stops most of us from ever being able to do this. We have the capacity to tap into a part of ourselves, empathy,and not stab kids to death.

The defined mental illnesses we have are not sufficient to cover off all anomalies. I understand psychopathy is not a mental illness for example. Not is sociopathy. I would call many psychopaths very ill.

I'm going to go back and research the Dahmer case. I think there is still conflicting professionals opinion regards defined mental illnesses even in his case. That guy was off his nut which ever way you look at it.

Most people cannot just do what this kid did.

No I’m not concerned about that. I have ptsd and don’t go round murdering people. What I’m concerned about is the misogyny embedded in many asylum seekers because they’ve come from countries where women are viewed as and treated as shit. That’s the issue - not some poor little murderer having unresolved trauma. We need to start rejecting asylum claims if there is a suspicion that their values don’t match British values and assist them to claim asylum elsewhere that might offer more value alignment. We need to look at deporting those who don’t become aligned to the British way of life. Many immigrants do this with no issues we need to draw a line in the sand and demand certain behaviours of all our residents

The judge said the ND wasn't a factor

People need to stop leaning on something that hasn't been confirmed. There's no psych report

Those beautiful, innocent girls. They were attacked and murdered for being just that.

This government must shout out that it puts women's and girls’ rights and protection front and centre of all policies.

Religion, cultural sensitivities, trans rights etc come second.

No more crime series with the rape, murder and violence against women being its selling point.

We need to protect our girls and that can only happen in a society that unequivocally and demonstratively respects women.

There is a massive spectrum of mental illness, but even people with serious mental illness tend to hurt themselves rather than other people.

There are probably people who are just born bad- Who even as young children show cruelty to animals and children younger than them.

People without empathy or a conscience- who do dreadful crimes.

Hitler and others come to mind.

Even in the trenches of WW1 his fellow soldiers thought he was strange.

How does this apply to this case? Axel was born British, raised British. If you think there is no historical or current misogyny in our culture you are very mistaken.