Killer claims to be ill

[Galatine]

According to the BBC Axel Rudakubana is shouting in court that he is ill.
AIBU to say I couldn’t give a shit!

They need to stop looking at their age and focus on the crime in hand. If they're old enough to do something as awful as this,they're old enough to be punished regardless of their age.

From the BBC:

The judge has him removed again, saying the court is aware Rudakubana has been seen by two teams of paramedics who deem that he is fit to attend

If he’s been checked over and deemed fit to attend, he should be made to. Apparently, he’s been shouting. Well, he should be gagged then. Why should the evil - yes, evil not mentally ill - cowardly waste of space be allowed to leave. He should be made to sit through it all. There’s fuck all wrong with him - except cowardice.

So many people here are asking "why didn't the authorities stop him" - what would stopping him actually look like? You've got a teenage boy who has been expelled from school for a violent incident, then refused to attend another school. His parents are concerned about his behaviour. At school it has been noted he seems to be fascinated by violence. At that point there wasn't the evidence the police later found about the accessing terrorism instruction manuals and obtaining ingredients to make ricin, but there are these concerns and suspicions that he may do something violent in the future. How do you "stop him"? He presumably would have refused to voluntarily engage in some sort of CAMHS programme. Should the state step in and lock up a child (under 18yos are children) because of that level of concern about something they may do in the future? If in that secure unit he still refuses to talk to people, do you just leave him there? Medicate him against his will? What do you do when he turns 18? How long do you keep him locked up when he hasn't committed a crime (yet). It's a really difficult position. The state surely shouldn't go around routinely locking up people for fear of crimes they may commit in the future.

I have a relative that works in a prison/hospital? for those that have committed the worst crimes but are mentally ill. They think from their experience there that for most people there it is a combo of being mentally ill and being an awful person. The two things can exist at the same time and can make for a horrendous deadly combination.

I don't think it's a simple thing, who knows what could have been prevented if this young man would have received help before things got to the stage they were at. Like my relative say the thing that annoys him the most is that once you have committed an awful crime and are locked away in a secure facility they throw all of the resources at them. So much time and expense is spent on these people but before you get to that point often times there is nowhere to turn to.

I know from my experience with a mentally ill autistic teenager that it just isn't taken seriously, everything is attributed to autism and you are told there is nothing they can do. Depressed? That'll be the autism. Anxiety? That'll be the autism. We were actually told that we would have to 'wait for the world to change to accommodate ds' for him to start feeling better and there was nothing they could do about his suicidal ideation.

I understand that people are angry but I think that it's important that the anger is turned in the right direction.

There is reporting his parents have said he planned to commit a massacre at his old school and he tried to but they stopped him. So if he said that, surely he could have been locked up? People were locked up for less in terms of the riots. I'm not saying they shouldn't have been locked up - but this boy had much clearer intent to harm than the woman who was locked up for a racist tweet (that she deleted after 2 hours) and he had weapons too - machetes etc.

Sure, it's was Rampton here's a bit of it. There's more info about the treatment he got in the book in the link.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beyond-Evil-Inside-Twisted-Huntley/dp/1789465435?dplnkId=dc10e5ce-9623-49c4-adf8-9539043f1d4a.

Yes I think the man who killed students in Nottingham was diagnosed with it

Sometimes there is a good reason for capital punishment, just be rid of the monster

I guess we have a different understanding of cushy.

Wasn't there talk about changing the rules so they had to sit through sentencing? Was that dropped or is it in progress? He should have to listen to the victim impact statements that are now happening.

What charge and subsequent sentence would apply here?

In this case it's far better treatment than evil monsters like AR and Huntley deserve.

This. Next up, I want to see an investigation into this family and what they knew. If they failed to report his violent intent, they can be next in the dock to be answerable (or better still, on a one-way flight back to Rwanda).

I have too, as part of my work.

If I were a young man i would much rather be in prison than in a secure psychiatric hospital, especially long term.

I agree that age is often too arbitrary a consideration. Someone a few weeks away from legal adulthood is no less culpable than someone a few days over the threshold—or an adult of any age, honestly. These types of violence aren't a mistake that can or should be excused at any age. Take age into consideration along with all the other factors, but don't immediately remove the possibility of lifelong consequences based on age alone.

Even if we still had capital punishment I doubt he would have qualified as it was abolished for minors in the 1930s.

This is so sad, from the Guardian's reporting.

Leanne Lucas, the dance teacher who was seriously injured during the attack is reading her own statement.
She says: “As a 36-year-old woman I cannot give myself compassion or accept praise, as how can I live knowing I survived when children died.”
She speaks poignantly, with a strong voice, about having “lost my role, my purpose and my job”, feeling as if she cannot look after children again.
She describes the trauma as “horrendous”.
“He targeted us because we were women and girls, vulnerable and easy prey. To discover that he had always set out to hurt the vulnerable is beyond comprehensible.
“For Alice, Elsie, Bebe and the surviving girls, I’m surviving for you.”

The family are British - why would they be sent to a different country (especially the siblings who are UK born?)

Yes, targeted because women and girls - anti-female terrorism needs to be named.

The government clearly don't want this to be terrorism but it is.

I thought she was locked up for actual incitement which is a crime, whereas saying you plan to commit a crime isn’t a crime.

I agree.

Possession of ricin is a crime though, planning a terrorist attack is, and probably some of the other weapons he had. Is owning a machete legal?

Only 13 days away from 18? Surely the judge can make an exception and sentence him as an adult ? Considering the heinous crime

Only AR and his brother were born in the UK. The mother and father sought sanctuary following the Rwandan genocide. If they have concealed evidence, or protected this monster, they no longer deserve the protection of the British state.

A couple of days here or there shouldn’t excuse what this monster did. A parent sends their daughter to class and they die in this horrific way, alone, frightened, at the hands of this creature. It sickens me, it could have been any of our children being murdered. I feel so heartbroken for the parents.