to feel like we were scammed into going to University?

[Schleep]

When I was at school (completed sixth form 2009), if you were academic it was assumed that you'd go to University. The whole thing was pushed incredibly hard on us and, in retrospect, was quite propaganda-like - we had external people come and do loads of assemblies on how amazing Uni Life was, lots and lots of talk about how University would guarantee us high paying jobs and we were repeatedly told to not worry about the debt, the interest rate is practically zero and we'd never even realise the money was coming out.
(Of course, when you're in your teens, debt looks like free money anyway)

Fast forward 10, 15 years later - and all my friends are saddled with huge debts that they'll likely be paying off for the rest of their lives.
A lot of them have had their repayment contracts changed so its no longer written off after a certain time, the payment terms are not as favourable and interest rates have gone up.

I dodged a bullet by being rebellious and dropping out after just 1 term, and that term was just before the fees tripled (at the time, you'd have thought I was ruining my life the way the University/everyone responded.) and I feel incredibly lucky. A degree would not have increased my employability and I have no student debt.
But I have friends and family genuinely upset at the hundreds they're forking out each month for something they didn't want and (at least in their cases) they simply do not use.

I find it baffling that the system was funnelling people out of the workforce, into unnecessary (in many cases) education and saddling people with huge amounts of debt.

I feel like that. I always felt I was pushed into doing A levels at 6th form. I didn’t want to I wanted to do a more practical BTEC. I then went to Uni as I thought that was what was expected of me. Have now ended up with lots of student debt. Bizarrely though I am now in a good job relating to my degree but didn’t need my degree to get it LOL. I’ll be advising my kids to look at other options like apprenticeships

I agree wholeheartedly with you OP. I didn't go to uni and went straight to work, and because I work in the arts, people really don't care when they're employing you whether you have a degree or not- in fact, sometimes and with certain unis/drama schools, people actively avoid employing people who went there because their "education" has made them self conscious and insecure. Uni can be great and can teach you so much, and is of course necessary for certain career paths, but it's not the only path for the academically bright.

Well I imagine the funnelling was on purpose, helps the unemployment figures if a majority of 18-21year olds are in education.

I have a Plan 1 and Plan 2 debt, so owe about £35k, the interest added is more than I pay off every month, I'm on £33k. It's annoying and I'd rather DD went the Degree apprenticeship route but she has her heart set on Uni.

Far too many now go to University so having a degree hasn't got the value it used to.

I am certainly feeling this way about DD, who's currently choosing A levels.

I left school in 1990 so it was different back then, we were at Uni during the period when grants began to be replaced by loans but had nothing like the costs of today. At the time I was one of a handful of people encouraged to apply from my comprehensive school so the path was twinkling. I guess it helped my earlier career (but wasn't linked to my subject). My current job doesn't need that level of education.

YANBU.

I think while it is an admirable thing to want a well-educated society, a lot of jobs do not and should not require degree-level qualifications and the expansion of the university sector has been at the expense of other further and higher education options, other routes to qualification, and a lot of the burden has landed on students, parents, and the taxpayer while private developers building university accommodation etc have been laughing all the way to the bank.

I always thought and still do think it is fundamentally wrong for young people to begin their lives with so much debt hanging over them - for all the talk of it being a graduate tax.

But DH says his (IT) company disregard anyone without a degree so...

Also I am a lawyer and from quite a modest working class/lower middle background. I got almost a full grant back in 1994 when I started my first degree. I came out with £6,500 debt from loans and repaid it by the time I had my first child in 2005. Also had a professional studies loan from a bank for my LPC which the law firm I got a training contract from paid off for me. I bought a house in 2001. I just don't know whether in the same position today whether someone like me would make the decision to go to university. Certainly not many 26 year olds are in a position to buy a house.

The thing is, there are still not enough other options. You can't even easily re-do GCSEs other than Maths and English. There is still far too much store, in England and Wales anyway, in what kids do at 16. GCSEs are total bollocks I think, I would scrap them in a heartbeat.

Absolutely agree, I didn't go to Uni as I'm an old bird and did the old style nurse training (before it was a degree). A lot of degrees are a rip off, and these days don't necessarily lead to well paid employment.

There needs to be a big push for more employers to offer more apprenticeship degrees.

My friend, who graduated in 2017, is currently saddled with £78,000 in debt.
Her account was charged £5k in just interest in 2023.
Given the repayment plan, she'd need to be earning £55,000 a year just to be paying off enough each month to cover the interest increase - so she's just accumulating more and more debt each year.

It's wild.

As soon as the majority of school leavers are pushed into university, it devalues lots of degrees; and the promise of high paid graduate jobs becomes a myth.

I think it depends on the chosen subject/degree. I have not studied in the UK and I don’t have any student loans left to pay but in general everyone I know, including myself are using the knowledge they’ve gained at uni in their jobs. Maybe it’s because I only know people who read very practical and down-to-earth degrees but they are paying off.

In the 'old days' I got to the dizzy heights of director of education in a local authority. Now I wouldn't even be selected for interview for an entry level management position in the same LA because I don't have a degree.
I worked my way up from a basic admin job, gradually extending my knowledge and experience over 17 years. When I started in management I was well prepared, arguably better prepared than a graduate applying from outside.

I agree, I went to Uni because it was expected of me. Despite being the first generation in my family to go to Uni. My Dad said "just do any course" Uni is the best thing to do. So I did and it was the shittest course ever and has had zero benefit to my life at all.

My husband however is in a career where a degree is essential and earns enough that he paid his loan off years ago. So clearly it benefited him! But I will be wary of pushing my kids to go, unless they have a specific job in mind that has a degree requirement. Obviously it's their choice not mind but yeh I won't be saying just do any course for sure!!

Your post has really made me think, OP! It’s true that university was presented as unequivocally the best step to take, even though it wasn’t right for everyone.

I left school in 2005 and I remember it as particularly being a thing for my parents’ generation - they were all very, very keen for their children to go to university. Even now, my siblings and DH are all fairly lukewarm about our time at university but it’s our parents who rave about it “oh but you learned so much about independence, you met one of your best friends there, it’s such an amazing experience”.

I’ve always felt that I had an ok time at university but I would have been just as happy to get a “normal” job after school and progress from there. I’m not in a career which needs a university degree. I think most of the experiences and fun which people rave about are just what happens in your late teens/early twenties whether you’re at uni or not.

I was lucky enough to go just before the fees went up but if I’d been a couple of years younger and been left with even more debt, I definitely wouldn’t have thought it was worth it.

Yanbu. I was in a private school in the late 90s early 2000s....there wasn't even a discussion about whether you'd go to university...it was just assumed. There was a particular vocational route I'd have loved to go down which would have meant college rather than university. It didn't even occur to me that I could actually do it. Instead I did a degree I had little interest in and which has been absolutely useless. Still the school was able to tell prospective parents that 100% of pupils went to university...so success 🙄

I agree. I am not particularly bright and very lazy. I'm much more outdoorsy and slogged my way through A-levels and a degree because that's what you have to do to get a good job and be able to afford your own home. Well it took me 15 years of work and good property transactions (buying/selling flats) to be able to afford a house for me and my family.

I've taken until over 20 years of graft to get what my non-university educated parents achieved. It's certainly not the golden ticket it was presented as.

I was academic at school and went on to 6th form and university. No other paths were really discussed or highlighted so I didn't realise all the options I had at my feet as a clever 18 year old. I don't use my degree now. I would love to look at retraining, but free time, money and age are not on my side.

My degree serves as a tick box and nothing else, it's not related to what I do, but having it has got me roles I wouldn't otherwise be qualified for.

I think it was the Labour government at the time who wanted higher education for everyone. There was a massive expansion and degrees ended up being mandatory for jobs that previously just required GCSEs. Many people who weren't academic were encouraged to "better" themselves by getting a degree so the value of a degree was eroded.

I see so many young people who would be set up for life if they learned a trade of profession on the job (nursing, hairdressing, accounting) do a degree. I know several who did photography or art and all are working in NMW jobs.

I think the tide is turning a little though.

I finished my a levels in the 1980s, could have gone to university for free and got a grant to live on but I was sick of studying and wanted to earn money.
Impossible to know if my life would have turned out more favorably had I taken the other path but I am shocked at the way things have changed. Universities are now just a mechanism to rinse & exploit young people.

Im baffled by some young people determinedly borrowing to go to uni basically because its fun and puts off working. Its madness it costs so much.

Imho we need to really encourage employers to be training the staff they need. More apprenticeships and far more emphasis on trade skills, we badly need more plumbers, construction workers, electricians etc.

I'm an academic and I agree with you 100%.

I guess it depends on what degree you do. Vocational degrees obviously lead to better employment prospects but getting a degree just for the sake of it isn't that helpful.

I don't think it's useful to think of it as a debt really. I'm not even aware of how much I owe because I'll never pay it off so I don't care to check. Think of it as a tax.