to feel like we were scammed into going to University?

[Schleep]

When I was at school (completed sixth form 2009), if you were academic it was assumed that you'd go to University. The whole thing was pushed incredibly hard on us and, in retrospect, was quite propaganda-like - we had external people come and do loads of assemblies on how amazing Uni Life was, lots and lots of talk about how University would guarantee us high paying jobs and we were repeatedly told to not worry about the debt, the interest rate is practically zero and we'd never even realise the money was coming out.
(Of course, when you're in your teens, debt looks like free money anyway)

Fast forward 10, 15 years later - and all my friends are saddled with huge debts that they'll likely be paying off for the rest of their lives.
A lot of them have had their repayment contracts changed so its no longer written off after a certain time, the payment terms are not as favourable and interest rates have gone up.

I dodged a bullet by being rebellious and dropping out after just 1 term, and that term was just before the fees tripled (at the time, you'd have thought I was ruining my life the way the University/everyone responded.) and I feel incredibly lucky. A degree would not have increased my employability and I have no student debt.
But I have friends and family genuinely upset at the hundreds they're forking out each month for something they didn't want and (at least in their cases) they simply do not use.

I find it baffling that the system was funnelling people out of the workforce, into unnecessary (in many cases) education and saddling people with huge amounts of debt.

Luckily I went to university in 1998 so whilst I had fees and loans my tick box wasn't nearly as expensive as it is now

It’s still the same way now. I’m in my 20’s so really wasn’t long ago I was at sixth form/uni, I always knew I wanted to go to uni because I had my heart set on Law which does require a degree but every single “career’s” day my sixth form had was just uni’s. There was never any other paths, we had weekly scheduled “lessons” which were for doing our UCAS applications so it was very much “you’re here so you’re going to uni, pick a course”, sixth form was pretty good in that it organised lots of visits to different uni campuses for people to go to open days etc but again there wasn’t any non-uni alternatives. I do use my degree daily in my job but many of my friends got their degrees and then haven’t used them since, although some of them have got graduate jobs so although not using their specific degree, they wouldn’t have gotten their jobs without that degree.

I have a younger cousin who has just started uni last year and 2 other younger cousins who are currently doing their applications and they are in the same position, they haven’t had any other options shown really. The one already in uni openly says she’s gone because her friends are going, she wanted to live out with them, but there’s no goal job at the end and the degree she’s chosen doesn’t lend itself to any particular career.

It is a shame though because there are lots of other options now. I think college’s are better at showing a range of options but sixth forms are very much “here are your choices of uni, pick one”.

AI is coming to take all our jobs...so I think it's important to consider when we are advising our kids on their future path. My eldest is 16 and doing a vocational qualification

A lot of them have had their repayment contracts changed so its no longer written off after a certain time, the payment terms are not as favourable and interest rates have gone up.

By who? That's not how the loans work. The changes to repayment only applies to newly taken loans which is why people refer to plan 1, plan 2 etc.

For what it's worth I'm the same age as you and don't recognise this at all. Yes university was the assumed route but I don't know anyone 'saddled' with debt. Our cohort were plan 1 so we repay 9% of income over £25k. And it'll get written off in another 12 years.

How much are you currently repaying that it all feels so bad?

I had long since clocked on t hat degrees don't always equate to decent jobs.

D s did not go to uni he is nearly 20 works full time owns a car has good savings and zero debt.

I will definitely be keeping more of an open mind for my children rather than assuming the academic route is the best.

I know quite a few families of varying social classes whose DC are learning a trade....it's often a much more sensible option. No uni debt, can get straight into work and hopefully be in an ai proof career. I mention social class because in the past, so many trades were seen as for working class people.

I went to Uni in the 90's and I was certainly pushed to go. I was academic and at a Private school so it wasn't DO you want to go but which one do you want to go to?
I actually found a fantastic course at a Poly I would have loved to have done but was strongly discouraged
Luckily it was all free then so no debt
However, while DD HAS gone to Uni because she really does need a degree for her career path DS is thinking he might not. DH is not happy about it but I can see how another path might be better
Not sure I would use the word "Scam" though

For the majority of people, university is a scam. I certainly wouldn't go.

At 18 in the early 2000s there’s no way I was ready to be an adult with a career. I had part time jobs but did not want to commit to anything longer term and wanted to spend some time living away from home working out who I was and what I wanted. University was the best thing that happened to me to become an adult. I also did 2 international placements as part of my science degree.

yes I got debt (maximum loan for 4 years) but also got some bursary for going abroad. Worked full time + most holidays to pay for myself. Paid off my student loan by the time I was 30.

uni really was a life changing opportunity for me.

The UK social class system has a lot to answer for imo. The whole idea that if you're smartly dressed and sitting behind a desk you must be a success and if you're doing a practical job you must be poor and lower class. It's such a terrible and damaging mindset.

I definitely feel like I was herded into it. Looking back now, what I would have chosen to do didn't exist as a course and didn't really exist as a career, whereas now it's huge. In the end I got a junior job and was paid to learn it all and then started my own business from that, and that/the apprenticeship route is always what I recommend now. The apprentices I worked with have been able to buy houses and nice cars by 25 and have no debt and a strong career experience background.

I would have enjoyed it a lot more had there been a course that met my interests more than something generically academic.

There is this widely held belief that you are "less than" without a degree or you're missing out if you don't go to uni and it's not true at all.

I think parents like to encourage degrees especially if they have no degree themselves.

I did my degree in the 1980s so realised it was of less value now to get a degree.

Especially media studies art etc.

People who are financially literate view uni debt as more of a tax. Only a tiny minority with pay off all their loan that’s not how they were designed. University is much more than gaining an academic qualification, there are so many soft skills learnt that are valuable in life and to employers. Not to mention for most it’s a unique enjoyable experience particular if you don’t live at home.

I finished year 11 in 2010. We had a careers fair type of event during GCSE’s and I talked to the tutors saying I wanted to go to hair and beauty college. They scoffed and said I was too intelligent for that and should do A-levels and uni instead.

I ended up doing an Arts degree and although I enjoyed it, loved moving to a new city, student life, becoming independent etc. I still ended up paying hundreds of pounds some years later to train in beauty. I don’t regret going to uni, but I wonder how different my life could be if I went straight into beauty college.

University doesn't equal intelligence in my book. And by not attending University, it doesn't also mean that you haven't got lots to bring to the table.

I was put off from attending University when I saw how much I would have to pay in fees.

I now have a decent job in the NHS and it's fascinating how many people with degrees have ended up in the same job as me.

I am very intelligent and can do my job well. It's not to say that I didn't do further education. I did and did it alongside working full time. But nowadays, people would see my lack of degree as a testament to my capacity of employment.

For me, university was an incredible experience and I can't imagine not having gone. I obviously have the privileged position of being able to say 'it's not all about the money or what job you get after' but it's how I personally feel. I think my world and life would have been so much smaller without those few years.

If you're purely looking at it as a transaction of pay - get degree - get job, then no, maybe it's often not worth it. And obviously the idea that if you don't have a degree you're lesser needs to get in the bin, as does the requirement for degrees for jobs that don't really need the specialised knowledge.

I really wish there could be a much wider debate on this.

Years ago a degree was prized and did mean something- now it has been devalued enormously.

The trouble is universities have become huge employers and it would cause an economic crisis if they closed - not to mention all those empty city centre accommodation blocks.

But we need a realistic conversation about whether individuals going to second rate institutions, doing esoteric degrees, are gaining any benefit that results in life long debt. Universities are only one route - employers should offer far more supported work/education routes and the government should support that.

It’s a con trick I think.

For me it was definitely a waste of money and time.

I’m a similar age to you OP and I agree that it was very misguided - although I’m not sure id say the intention was to scam people.

At the time, I think there was a clear link that graduate = higher wages, and so people thought that this was the best opportunity for young people.

I also think we were being advised by people where this literally had been true for their generation (where fewer had been to university) - and in an environment where ‘working with your hands’ was sneered at. ‘You’ll end up flipping burgers’, seeing trades as working class jobs etc.

It was (and continues to be IMO) hugely misguided to encourage people to pursue qualifications that have limited / no value.

There was a period where a degree was essential just to get an interview - but that’s behind us now I think, and employers are more interested in experience.

I also think the debt situation was totally missold (and continues to be missold) to people. Particularly on the newer loans where the interest is so high.

I will not just blindly be advocating to my child they must go to university - and I am from a family where it was an expectation.

I don't think student debt is anything to worry about. You never pay it off at a rate that's unaffordable – it's really more like a tax. The only time I ever notice it is when I get a bonus – it's a bit annoying then that so much of it gets swallowed up by the SLC! But again, it's never unaffordable. And I believe higher education is a privilege, not a right, so you SHOULD have to pay for it when you can afford to do so – and the current systems ensures (well, is supposed to ensure, although cost of living is making it less and less viable for lower income families) that everyone has the chance to go to university whether they can afford it up front or not.

Having said that, I don't think university is the right path for everyone, and I will certainly be encouraging DD to think carefully. And I would be delighted if she wanted to do some kind of vocational course instead as I think those leave you far more employable in the long term. Even if she is set on attending university I would hope that she would take at least one gap year to get some real world experience and make sure her subject choice is what she really wants, rather than her just being funnelled from one stage of education to the next. The people I know who are happiest in their careers did training later in life, once they'd worked out who they were and what they really wanted to do. I wish I had been able to do that, but having already been to university in my teens meant retraining was unaffordable.

Only your last sentence is true.

And people are still paying their loans monthly or yearly - and now with a much higher rate of interest than when they took it out - even if they don't finish paying it off. They don't pay it off because the interest rate is high and salaries are low, it's not a good thing.

Uni is great if you want to study a subject in depth and have opportunity to travel, meet lots of different people and to try loads of extra curricular societies and is not just about getting a job. Those that have done degree apprenticeships miss out on the social side and the coursework side but obviously have the plus of being paid and no debt. Horses for courses .

It's not just the debt...if you go straight into work, you don't just avoid the debt, you have three extra years worth of salary which if you're living at home and save, can give you a nice headstart in terms of buying your own home.

He has a point. I don´t use my degree in my job, but I was told I was hired because of it. My old boss said, when she has two candidates with similar abilities, she´ll take the one with the degree.