To feel everyone is anti trans?

[Kitjo]

I'm well aware of current US views led by Trump - but are these views generally held/supported in the UK? Of course I understand opinions on NHS gender reassignment funding, as well as controversies over trans women in sport. Needless to say I'm fully aware of concerns over women's safety issues. Are there any sympathisers or supporters out there? What about trans masculine folk who are surely no threat to women's safety or sport? None of these people would choose such a hard life, socially, financially, physically, mentally, emotionally... am I alone in thinking a bit of kindness and compassion towards the trans community might be appreciated for the massive personal struggles they have to face? I am open minded to hearing and understanding your views.

Exactly.
Thank you for this post.
I meet trans people daily. I am without fail respectful and polite. As they are, generally.
Much of the discussion goes on online, where posters are anonymous.
On the fwr board here there is excellent and nuanced discussion about the implications of gender ideology, but in general posters who try to whip up froth, or are more anti trans than pro women, are shut down quickly.

My autistic DD went through a non binary ish stage in her 20s. Later it came out that she couldn't identify with (online) expectations of femininity. She didn't like her breasts or having periods because of the sensory issues. Despite being an intelligent young woman she had to have the implications of mastectomy and hysterectomy spelt out to her.
Fortunately we have a strong relationship but the online effect is profound on these young people, and it was hard keeping her safe from herself and the influences around her.
Now in her 30s, my dd is settled in a relationship and considering starting a family. She's still supportive of her trans friends and we don't debate it, but she has acknowledged the difficulties around gender ideology, and is glad that we just kept kicking the can down the road with her wanting surgery etc.

I find it really disappointing when posters come here to discuss this in good faith, and trans activists don't bother to read the posts. They don't seem to be able to cope with well reasoned discussion. Their cries of you're all bigots and meanies feels very teenage, sadly.

Trans people shouldn’t have to use to sex assigned at birth toilet, there should be a mixed or alternate opinion so everyone is comfortable.

They don’t want that, they want to use the women in women’s spaces. They want to force women to pretend they are women because that is what arouses them (aka ‘trans joy’).

Yes all of this.

Im very much a live and let live and this is a good summary of how I feel however we're deemed anti trans for having this view. Or for wanting our spaces protected.

This.

Live and let live, but I am not in favour of positive discrimination, this can be just as divisive.

Fear of men isn’t “quite niche”. Read the relationships board occasionally and you’ll see daily posts about men being abusive and physically violent towards the women and children who trust them.

Having safe spaces for women which can’t be infiltrated by men, regardless of how they present, or claim to identify, is a right that women don’t want to give up. Women have fought for decades for our own rights to life in public spaces and being pushed back to make way for males who claim to do womanhood better than we do is sickening.

I don’t want men (adult males of any physical presentation or identity) in womens changing rooms, DV shelters, rape counselling, medical settings (where specifically requested), changing rooms unless solid floor to ceiling doors are used, crime stats, women only events, lesbian events, prisons, swimming sessions, awards or shortlists, diversity quotas and incentives, Facebook groups, breastfeeding support groups, women’s health literature and screening campaigns, or anywhere that women need to be the focus for their own safety, protection and ability to participate fully in public life.

That’s what I mean when I say I’m a TERF. Does it mean I want all trans people to die in a grease fire or be sent to the gulag? No, that violent and intolerant rhetoric comes from the other side.

“Bash a TERF”, “a good day for killing terfs” “enjoy your erasure”, photos of them brandishing weapons and talking about how “cis women” deserve violence, doxxing, threats to have people arrested, people actually BEING arrested for wrongthink and pronoun crimes - none of that has helped their cause tbh.

But even if they’d gone about the brainwashing, sterilisation and mutilation of young people in a peaceful way I would still have issue with the fundamentals of this movement.

So if that’s what anti-trans means, yes I am. I prefer to think of it as pro-women, pro-facts, pro-reality, Pro-safeguarding, anti-cheating, anti-violence, anti-hate-speech, anti-misogyny, pro-women’s choices, pro-dignity, anti-unnecessary medical procedures, pro-fairness, pro-accurate record keeping. But whatever. You do you boo.

Idealogical bullshit bullying.

I think the difference between sex and gender is sometimes important.

That’s anti- trans apparently.

I think people would have more sympathy if the authorities weren’t seen to be bending over backwards to accommodate them and their wishes to the detriment of the rest of the population.

I think people are generally live and let live until they feel there is unfairness or stupidity, like being gaslit/misled by authorities (schools, nhs etc) who imply that it’s possible to change sex when we all know factually it isn’t and actually put things in place to accommodate this!

I think it’s ludicrous to allow men into womens sports, spaces and prisons and so do most normal people.

I think “trans” has been used as a useful way to cope with the problems faced by some autistic people struggling with puberty, some people with mental health issues and people that don’t feel they fit into society. Also people who may be gay but not comfortable with that. Instead of going down the road of helping all of these people to cope with their problems, an “easy” or rather fashionable solution is to push them down the trans rabbit hole where they are accepted into a welcoming community. Plus with zero thought of future problems that may occur.

And as much as my views might mean I am anti trans @Kitjo I would like to emphasise that I have never been on a social platform and called for a trans person to be raped, burned or murdered, I have never drawn a poster calling for transwomen to be hung and then carried it in a public place, I have never shouted “kill the trannies” in a demonstration, I have never stalked a prominent transwoman to their home and posted pictures of it online knowing they had young children there, I have never punched a sixty year old transwoman in the face for daring to challenge me. Etc.

Because these are not the ways societal change is managed, these are not the ways discussions and compromises are made and solutions found. These are the actions of thugs, and the actions of thugs harden moderate attitudes, and that is precisely what has happened.

If you call down a storm you have to expect that you will get wet too.

Women are soooo "hateful" when they say no to men 🙄

hateful rhetoric? This is why GC feminism
and world wide disillusionment with the trans juggernaut has soared to our current global situation, where the vast majority of people are now saying NO. You can't honestly believe that it's hateful rhetoric to say that humans can't change sex or that gender is an unhelpful social construct or that males don't belong in women's sports, prisons, rape crisis centres, or that children should be allowed to explore who they are without being affirmed as the opposite sex which they can never ever be.

I don’t think there has been a single hateful comment on this thread. Everyone has clearly articulated their positions. They haven’t wished ill on anyone or threatened to beat anyone up. They are just saying their boundaries. You have a different boundary and that is ok but to suggest that anyone who differs from your view as hateful is what got society into this situation in the first place.

and don’t get me started on the ‘far right’ nonsense.

Same here

I think women are being blamed for a male problem.
If it was safe for men to wear female clothing , and present themselves in what they feel is a female manner, etc in male spaces without fear of ridicule or violence, they wouldn't need to be in womans spaces. But many men are scared of transwomen when it comes down to it. And they can react violently.
However its women who are called transphobic for objecting to them in womens spaces.

At the base of it... everyone just wants to do their life. No one actually cares that other people want to use a toilet, or play sports, or wear an item of clothing. But they do want to do it in a way that feels safe to themselves.

As the original OP was about America... I think their particular brand of ttansphobia is just bigotry not actual concern. They couldn't care less about teenage girls sports any more than they care that they could die from pregnancy complications or from a school shooter. They only care about rich white men.

I'm not anti trans. People can do what they want.
I am pro the protection of women's rights and hanging on to the little bit of progress that has been made in my life time.
Trans people can have their own categories in competitive sport for example.
Many people pushing the trans agenda are extremists. The fact that this provokes an extremist reaction in the likes of the orange one is not surprising

I'm very much "I'll call you what you like and don't really care"

As the original OP was about America... I think their particular brand of ttansphobia is just bigotry not actual concern. They couldn't care less about teenage girls sports any more than they care that they could die from pregnancy complications or from a school shooter. They only care about rich white men.

This is an extraordinary generalisation. There are 345 million people in the US.

I'm not anti trans
I'm just tired of hearing about it

There is also a contingent on here who clearly find trans people and what they 'stand for' disgusting or frightening. I think this stems from a fear of men honestly as it tends to relate only to trans women.

Like this trans woman, Karen White? Not sure why anyone would be afraid of this person due to an unfounded fear of men. Silly intolerant terfs. We should welcome Karen into all women’s spaces - live and let live.

I think “trans” has been used as a useful way to cope with the problems faced by some autistic people struggling with puberty, some people with mental health issues and people that don’t feel they fit into society. Also people who may be gay but not comfortable with that.

You need to look up autogynaephilia and also sissy porn (but not at work). There is a reason why, as the census showed, men who identify as trans are many times more likely to be sex offenders than other men.

I don't believe human beings can change sex, but if competent adults want to alter their bodies with surgery and the use of hormones, I think they should be free to do so, provided that they do it on their own dime. It's not something the cash-strapped NHS should be expected to cover.