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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel everyone is anti trans?

1000 replies

Kitjo · 22/01/2025 07:14

I'm well aware of current US views led by Trump - but are these views generally held/supported in the UK? Of course I understand opinions on NHS gender reassignment funding, as well as controversies over trans women in sport. Needless to say I'm fully aware of concerns over women's safety issues. Are there any sympathisers or supporters out there? What about trans masculine folk who are surely no threat to women's safety or sport? None of these people would choose such a hard life, socially, financially, physically, mentally, emotionally... am I alone in thinking a bit of kindness and compassion towards the trans community might be appreciated for the massive personal struggles they have to face? I am open minded to hearing and understanding your views.

OP posts:
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24
IdylicDay · 22/01/2025 12:17

Tandora · 22/01/2025 12:15

Yes the clue is in the name. It’s an anti trans lobby group

So to you a pro-women group is 'anti trans'.

You really prove our point that pro-trans = anti-women.

commonsense61 · 22/01/2025 12:17

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Babadookinthewardrobe · 22/01/2025 12:17

PicturePlace · 22/01/2025 07:50

The number of posts on here: "I'm not anti-trans, but..."

I have news for you. You are anti-trans.

The majority of those posts highlight that the posters are concerned for the safety and dignity of women and the erosion of their rights.

So by your own logic those concerned about women’s rights, privacy and dignity are anti-trans. Nice of you to sum up the problem so neatly. PS We’re not anti trans, you are anti women.

Tandora · 22/01/2025 12:18

IdylicDay · 22/01/2025 12:16

To you pro-women equals 'anti trans'.

Which proves our point.

incorrect

CautiousLurker01 · 22/01/2025 12:18

@JHound The studies cited in the articles are from ‘neutral’ sources (Toomey et al, the BMJ). Try reading them.

Lentilweaver · 22/01/2025 12:18

JHound · 22/01/2025 12:15

“I think”

Based on the tone of discussions about trans people and any and every comment on any article about trans people.

The tone I get is that most people hate trans people.

The president of the most powerful country in the world is a rapist and no one cares.
I think most people hate women.

Embroideryemma · 22/01/2025 12:18

The inability to separate genuine trans women from creepy AGP perverts is why biological makes have no place in women’s spaces. I feel for genuine trans women, but females need protecting from these creeps.

IdylicDay · 22/01/2025 12:18

Tandora · 22/01/2025 12:17

As above, your opinions about me (and about trans people) are noted.

And your opinion on womens rights is noted.

Thelnebriati · 22/01/2025 12:18

Single sex facilities such as prisons, hospital and psychiatric wards exist for a reason.
Its not hatred to say that women are a distinct sex class, have needs relating to their sex, and face specific risks in mixed sex facilities.

If you can't hear women discussing issues that affect them without jumping to ''you hate trans people'', thats your problem.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 22/01/2025 12:18

Tandora · 22/01/2025 12:15

Yes the clue is in the name. It’s an anti trans lobby group

Sex does matter in certain situations. You also can’t change sex. Not anti-trans to acknowledge this.

Drfosters · 22/01/2025 12:18

LoveACoffeeMorning · 22/01/2025 12:09

OK, briefly, but it's not exactly obscure...
The adage of "I'm not .....but" is the classic call of the 'phobe isnt it ... .' I'm not racist but...'
'I'm not sexist, but ...' and 'I'm not anti trans but ..'

nothing wrong with using that phrasing to give your position. You state your position on the question being asked but then you go into more detail above the nuances of the debate. It is isn’t phobic at all.

BlinkyBills · 22/01/2025 12:19

ThatsNotMyTeen · 22/01/2025 09:47

So if he hadn’t asked to move, would he still have remained on a ward with vulnerable women?

Quite possibly. We clinical staff had very little clout with the bed managers. It’s appalling.

suggestionsplease1 · 22/01/2025 12:19

Tandora · 22/01/2025 12:08

I would like to see this please

Have a look at this:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/244387/the-global-gender-gap-index/#:~:text=The%20global%20gender%20gap%20index%20benchmarks%20national%20gender%20gaps%20on,with%20a%20score%20of%200.94.

And then check out the countries on the list that have self ID amongst the top performers.

And then look at this for the worlds top economies, and do the same.

https://www.investopedia.com/insights/worlds-top-economies/

As you can see there is a much stronger correlation for the first 2 variables.

The Top 25 Economies in the World

Learn which countries are among the top 25 economies in the world. The United States has had the largest GDP for over a century, but China's has grown rapidly.

https://www.investopedia.com/insights/worlds-top-economies

JHound · 22/01/2025 12:19

Lentilweaver · 22/01/2025 12:18

The president of the most powerful country in the world is a rapist and no one cares.
I think most people hate women.

Edited

Ok. (Also note that in the USA - most white women voted for Trump.)

lifeturnsonadime · 22/01/2025 12:20

Interesting sophistry, the only way that pro women doesn't = anti trans is if you are using a definition of woman that includes men.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 22/01/2025 12:20

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

It appears so.

IdylicDay · 22/01/2025 12:21

suggestionsplease1 · 22/01/2025 12:19

Have a look at this:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/244387/the-global-gender-gap-index/#:~:text=The%20global%20gender%20gap%20index%20benchmarks%20national%20gender%20gaps%20on,with%20a%20score%20of%200.94.

And then check out the countries on the list that have self ID amongst the top performers.

And then look at this for the worlds top economies, and do the same.

https://www.investopedia.com/insights/worlds-top-economies/

As you can see there is a much stronger correlation for the first 2 variables.

Countries doing well economically have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING even remotely TO DO WITH self-ID.

Correlation does NOT equal causation. As you have been told around 2 hundred times but it doesn't sink in.

AnnoyedAsAllHeck · 22/01/2025 12:21

IdylicDay · 22/01/2025 12:16

To you pro-women equals 'anti trans'.

Which proves our point.

Which means, "peer-reviewed"=TRAs/trans/people who make money from promoting people becoming trans

suggestionsplease1 · 22/01/2025 12:22

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Jennifershuffles · 22/01/2025 12:22

SnowflakeSmasher86 · 22/01/2025 08:42

Fear of men isn’t “quite niche”. Read the relationships board occasionally and you’ll see daily posts about men being abusive and physically violent towards the women and children who trust them.

Having safe spaces for women which can’t be infiltrated by men, regardless of how they present, or claim to identify, is a right that women don’t want to give up. Women have fought for decades for our own rights to life in public spaces and being pushed back to make way for males who claim to do womanhood better than we do is sickening.

I don’t want men (adult males of any physical presentation or identity) in womens changing rooms, DV shelters, rape counselling, medical settings (where specifically requested), changing rooms unless solid floor to ceiling doors are used, crime stats, women only events, lesbian events, prisons, swimming sessions, awards or shortlists, diversity quotas and incentives, Facebook groups, breastfeeding support groups, women’s health literature and screening campaigns, or anywhere that women need to be the focus for their own safety, protection and ability to participate fully in public life.

That’s what I mean when I say I’m a TERF. Does it mean I want all trans people to die in a grease fire or be sent to the gulag? No, that violent and intolerant rhetoric comes from the other side.

“Bash a TERF”, “a good day for killing terfs” “enjoy your erasure”, photos of them brandishing weapons and talking about how “cis women” deserve violence, doxxing, threats to have people arrested, people actually BEING arrested for wrongthink and pronoun crimes - none of that has helped their cause tbh.

But even if they’d gone about the brainwashing, sterilisation and mutilation of young people in a peaceful way I would still have issue with the fundamentals of this movement.

So if that’s what anti-trans means, yes I am. I prefer to think of it as pro-women, pro-facts, pro-reality, Pro-safeguarding, anti-cheating, anti-violence, anti-hate-speech, anti-misogyny, pro-women’s choices, pro-dignity, anti-unnecessary medical procedures, pro-fairness, pro-accurate record keeping. But whatever. You do you boo.

Edited

What I'm saying is that violence against women by trans-women is not affecting large numbers of people.
I do agree that women and trans women need to be protected in situations where they are likely to be victims of violence.
I don't think that there is much, if any of this in changing rooms and public toilets but I understand the fear on both sides.

CautiousLurker01 · 22/01/2025 12:22

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Apparently so.

Just as saying you prefer tea probably means you are anti-coffee or something these days.

You are not allowed to be ‘for’ anything without it being bona fide, irrefutable evidence that you want to expunge its opposite from the face of the planet and the annals of history.

Wheresthebeach · 22/01/2025 12:22

For the love of God...women deserve safe spaces. No biological men in toilets or dressing rooms.
No rape victim should have to call her attacker 'she'.
Girls shouldn't compete against, or be forced to undress in front of biological men.
No biological men should be allowed to wave their dicks at women and announce it's not indecent exposure etc because they are a women.
No biological man should be housed in a women's prison esp if they are convicted of sex offenses

I could go on...I'm pro women's rights. They are not negotiable based on how men feel.

IdylicDay · 22/01/2025 12:23

This reply has been deleted

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Anyone pushing the idea that self-ID doesn't impact women and girls lives because.....economy is doing well is not a grown up.

Lentilweaver · 22/01/2025 12:24

IdylicDay · 22/01/2025 12:21

Countries doing well economically have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING even remotely TO DO WITH self-ID.

Correlation does NOT equal causation. As you have been told around 2 hundred times but it doesn't sink in.

Edited

Countries doing well economically eat noodles and rice.This means that everybody should eat noodles and rice.😂

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 22/01/2025 12:24

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You should be keeping quiet then 😂

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