To feel everyone is anti trans?

[Kitjo]

I'm well aware of current US views led by Trump - but are these views generally held/supported in the UK? Of course I understand opinions on NHS gender reassignment funding, as well as controversies over trans women in sport. Needless to say I'm fully aware of concerns over women's safety issues. Are there any sympathisers or supporters out there? What about trans masculine folk who are surely no threat to women's safety or sport? None of these people would choose such a hard life, socially, financially, physically, mentally, emotionally... am I alone in thinking a bit of kindness and compassion towards the trans community might be appreciated for the massive personal struggles they have to face? I am open minded to hearing and understanding your views.

Would you be interested if you were banged up in prison with a violent man?
Or survived rape to then be counselled by another man at the Edinburgh Rape Centre?
Or spent your whole life training for a sport, and then lost your Olympic place to a man?

As for the pp who think sports should not be segregated, you do realise they akready are? The Afghan men's cricket team is playing abroad while the women's voices can' t be heard. Maybe Afghani women should just identify as men.

Sorry what exactly was the correction?

Have you suddenly managed to find a study that shows that the best performing countries for women in the world are not also those that have policies of self ID?

Of course you haven't. You seem to be implying that I am making some causal argument, but causation is irrelevant for my argument,: I only have to show that there is no big picture evidence that indicates that policies of self-id are harmful to women.

There isn't, in fact across the board there is an incredibly strong trend that the countries that are doing best for trans people are also those that are doing best for women.

I think being trans is a luxury belief and ergo pretty privileged in and of itself.

How many men in Afghanistan are claiming to be women? Not such an attractive proposition there, is it?

The press needs to take some responsibility for the level of emotion in the trans debate. If you were to base your understanding of what they are on the headlines, you would think that they were all either sexual predators trying to get into the ladies loos for kicks, or misogynists undermining women's sports.

My experience is that this is not reflective of the actual trans community. The trans people I know have arrived where they are through a journey of great pain during their teenage years. Many of them have come from a place of self-harm and suicidal ideation. A huge proportion are autistic too. They are vulnerable, often bullied and socially isolated. They are not the threat the media makes them out to be. Quite the opposite.

I think the hysteria needs to be taken out of the whole debate. Just put an extra loo in for goodness sake and introduce some sensible rules into sports competitions. No need for all this anger.

They aren't though 🙄. Humans since the beginning of time have been able to tell a male from a female without looking in their pants.

If anyone is obsessed with genitalia it seems to be TRAs funnily enough.

I support women and I support transgender people. Not actually mutually exclusive despite what fundamentalists claim.

They do happen.

It depends what you mean by "anti trans". Of course no one should be bullied for how they dress. But equally women should not have to go along with pretending that men are women or put up with invasion of our privacy.

If women want to dress or appear "masculine" that's fine. But they remain women and we don't have to pretend otherwise

I hate the way celebrities and public figures are instantly blacklisted and denounced as creeps on here if they dare to say anything that is not one hundred percent condemnatory of trans people.

Which "celebrities" are those then? I don't care what celebrities think about anything, up until the point they spout off about it. So I suspect you're referring to the celebrities who've said something anti women's rights.

The term 'cis' is meaningless because the term includes any male person who has a DSD yet has a body that is **formed around the production of small gametes that has any degree of sensitivity to any of the testosterone that body produces.

There is no word left for female people.

Because even male people are now saying they are also ‘female’ . When ^^ female means only a person of the sex category where that person's body has been formed around the production of large gametes, regardless of whether the body does, has or ever will produce those large gametes. ie that requires the presence of ovaries or ovarian tissue - never testes.

In fact, we now have examples of many male people declaring that they are female people. So even the word for female has become meaningless in that sense.

But 'cis' is a* *word that was repurposed from its original usage and is meaningless for the purpose of discussing female people in its current usage. It has been used in academic papers as well in an attempt at using inclusive language which then renders the papers meaningless because the term is not describing a unique grouping of human bodies, even when it claims to be doing just that.

To see how this works, we have been told that 'girl' and 'woman' both now include:

1 Male person who has been incorrectly registered as a female at birth, but has a male body **.
2 Any male person has now claimed a transgender identity using those labels.
3 And any person who has a female body ^^.

Under the label of 'girl' and 'woman', extreme transgender activists have been telling us for years that those labels break down into two types of girls or women:

Cis and Transwomen/transgirls.

These terms mean:

Cis
= (1) Male person who has been incorrectly registered as a female at birth, but has a male body **

and

= (3) Any person who has a female body^^

Trans
= (2) Any male person has now claimed a transgender identity using those labels.

Therefore there is no unique word to mean female people who have a body ^^ formed around the production of large gametes.

Cis is meaningless as a unique description for female people and it always was. It is also misogynistic because it leaves female people with no unique word for their needs.

I think the hysteria needs to be taken out of the whole debate. Just put an extra loo in for goodness sake and introduce some sensible rules into sports competitions. No need for all this anger.

What do you think women have been arguing for? Third spaces and sensible rules have been rejected by trans activists.

And you know, sex isn't only determined by what is in people's pants. It's in every single cell. It's the trans activists who seem to be obsessed with genitals.

I am, and I’m not. Have a ‘real’ trans friend of several decades. They were trans eons before it was ‘a thing’. They are the first one to say that 99% of young people now identifying as trans are nothing of a sort, but are either just young/lost with beginning of sexuality, or undiagnosed ASD or similar so don’t fit in ‘normally’ so presume becoming trans will ‘fix’ their not fitting in etc. So, if I go with what they say, I’m called transphobic. However, I’ve never had an issue over many decades before this current deluge with accepting/believing people who are truely trans.

Also, as an extra, due to (adult) kids, I’ve had exposure to a sport where a few ‘women’ seem to only identify as women for one day a week for this particular sport, where they then ‘excel’ and the rest of the week they identify and live as men. And if you call this bullshit out, you are labelled anti-trans.

I don’t even know where to start with this. Not to diminish how some trans people do face real danger, it is nothing in comparison to what girls and women face every moment of every day. Do you know how many girls and women lost their lives to violence in the last year in this country alone? What exactly is your idea of privilege when it comes to being female born? What exactly is ‘being supportive’ - because anything less then standing up applauding with a fix grin on your face seems to be seen as ‘unsupportive’ to those with exceptional levels of delusion about social structure.

Honestly I’m sick to the back teeth of the trans issue. As are my friends/ family etc ! It’s the constant forcing us to accept a man is a woman and vice versa I will never to the day I die see it like that. I see male and I see female the end.

However absolutely no issues with someone living their best life, if it makes them happy fine. All I ask is live your life be respectful and I will be also. I want this nonsense out of schools, I want it to stop being a main topic of conversation and that’s it. My personal view is we have a major mental health crisis and an extremely confused and lost generation.

No problem with trans adults, who are capable of making their own decisions (sport is a whole can of worms I don't know how to address), but I am vehemently against autistic and/or gay teenagers being set on a pathway for hormones and surgery simply because we still don't know what to do with autism (or homophobia). It really feels like just making it somebody else's problem.

We don't affirm anorexia, so we do we affirm this instance of body dysmorphia?

No I’m not. Sandi Toksvig is a good example.

Yes me too. If they want to call themselves trans identified men etc, I don't care. But I'm not going to pretend men are women

Yep!!

Okay, so how would you offer support, for example, to a woman who requires a single-sex rape counselling group, and the transwomen who also believe they need to be present in that same group.

In the UK, vast VAST majority of people don't give a toss about straight, gay, bi, trans, or any variations thereof

There are good reasons for people to criticise Sandi Toksvig, it's not because she "said something that wasn't 100% condemnatory of trans people". Well done for proving my and pp point that your post was ridiculous @KimberleyClark

I disagree. I don’t feel the same and neither does anyone in my circles. Other than one prejudiced relative, a bit like the racist uncle nobody wants to listen to over Christmas dinner.

I only have a problem with trans as it’s been demanded of us in the last decade or so: we have to believe sex change is possible or we’re bigots; we must support self ID and accept ‘identify as’ as a meaningful category regardless of behaviour and presentation; we must accept male bodies in female sports and prisons/refuges etc. The situation in the UK prior to demands for self ID etc seemed fine to me: people can live and present as they choose and it’s mostly fine, if you undergo medical transition and live as your trans-sex identity for x no of years you can be legally recognised as that sex for the majority of purposes, with caveats around sports, healthcare, prisons and so on. I don’t really understand why that balance was ever upended in the first place?

One woman is killed every 10 minutes by her intimate partner or family member. But of course women aren't in danger and it's transwomen who are. I sometimes wonder if some posters even read the news.