To feel everyone is anti trans?

[Kitjo]

I'm well aware of current US views led by Trump - but are these views generally held/supported in the UK? Of course I understand opinions on NHS gender reassignment funding, as well as controversies over trans women in sport. Needless to say I'm fully aware of concerns over women's safety issues. Are there any sympathisers or supporters out there? What about trans masculine folk who are surely no threat to women's safety or sport? None of these people would choose such a hard life, socially, financially, physically, mentally, emotionally... am I alone in thinking a bit of kindness and compassion towards the trans community might be appreciated for the massive personal struggles they have to face? I am open minded to hearing and understanding your views.

When i was young we had single sex toilets at my school but I got bullied terribly by mean girls who where hanging around smoking in toilets during breaks. I didn’t want to change pads during my menstruation because of them. Single sex toilets are no guarantee for a safe space. Not all women are saints and not all trans people are rapists.

@ICompletelyKnowAboutGuineaPigs7

Teachers should not fear being taken to court because of a pronoun mistake. Why can't tolerance go both ways?

Works the other way too.

1 teacher at my dds school won't allow you to call her (them) Ms or Miss.

You have to just use the surname. It's awful for the kids.

@Mielbee That 'study' is a joke and even they themselves admitted it was self-selected and not reliable...

No but they give girls privacy and dignity and safety away from BOYS.

In reality there are few trans people and most of us will not confront the issues that get aired online.

If there are so few, why have we had to change the meaning of sex?

Why have we had to downgrade the meaning of "female"?

Why do my Muslim and Conservative Jewish female friends now have to stay near enough to home when they go out to guarantee that they can go to the loo?

Why are women forced to undress in front of men who want to be women, if those men want it but the women don't?

That is a large unwanted impact for so few no?

I mean, we only got rid of legal rape in marriage in 1992. It took 1,000s of years and there are tens of millions of us.

This crew arrive out of nowhere and get governments and international institutions to change from a science based structure to feeling based structure.

That costs a lot of money. Where does the money come from for that level of change?

How come they are so powerful?

Apologies for not having read the full thread. I’m broadly with you OP. Like virtually every issue this is nuanced and it worries me how many few people seem able to accept the grey areas.

The vast majority of trans people just want to live their lives, which are difficult enough, and I see terrible hate being spewed at them – led by J. K. Rowling, who’s in my opinion completely unhinged on the issue now (having started out balanced).

On Twitter which I have to use a lot for work, I see a mean girl clique surrounding her, mainly made up of not very good authors who get their kicks from having their ringleader retweet their posts and follow them. They’re all now cheering Trump for speaking out against trans people, as if this was the only issue that matters, which I find horrifying. And I got tired of a load of people telling me at the last election they were going to vote Tory because Keir Starmer didn’t know what a woman was, when in actual fact the reason they wanted to vote Tory was because they were worried about VAT on school fees, but the woman thing had become a more acceptable thing to say.

I don’t believe this women are in danger in public bathrooms nonsense, though I personally don’t like mixed gender toilets because I don’t want to pee in a space where a smelly man’s just been.

However, I do see there are issues in women’s sport and I do think it’s wrong to talk about issues such as chest feeding. Trans people just have to suck those kind of things up. In practice, if you are a trans man who gives birth, I’m sure you can have a word with your midwife about what terminology you would like to use, but it’s not fair to make it a blanket thing for all women.

But in summary the vile bullying trans people now are experiencing – take the comments about lovely Alex on Traitors - goes against everything a country like Britain used to uphold.

@ClioMuse and @Watermelon500 I agree!

I also agree @TCCOS
I would probably get labelled as Anti trans as if the person wants to present themselves as the opposite sex....crack on. But biologically your are still the sex you were when you were born and nothing can change that.

I don't want women's spaces invaded by biological men. I don't want that for my daughter.

I don't want school teaching about it.

I don't want to be referred to as cis.
I don't use my pronouns on my email.

It's a mental health condition that needs to be treated appropriately.
Look at all the people 'de-transioning'
The horrible effects of surgeries! People struggling to pass urine! It's awful!

How do they know you were 'born in the wrong body?' How do you know how it feels to be a man or a woman?
I'm a woman and I don't know how it feels to be a woman? I am me and I know I hate period cramps!
If I was a man I would only have to worry about my prostate getting enlarged!
If I want to transition to a man.....I would have my woman problems and still not have to worry about my prostate!

I had no issue with the idea of trans people at all a few years ago. I find that I do now though as TBH I don’t believe all these people are trans, I think some have MH issues, some are attention seekers and some just can’t accept that they’re different - not necessarily that they’re trans but why can’t some people accept that not following gender norms or stereotypes, doesn’t make you a different gender? Be who you are without all that goes along with being trans.
there are some exceptions to this of course, but I feel those who are genuinely trans aren’t shoving it down everyone’s throat and ranting and raving about it, they are just quietly getting on with their lives.

This small self selected study by the Williams Institute is literally the only study provided by trans activists. They lobby for trans people and are personally funded by those with trans interests. It’s been widely debunked.

Cis is also vom inducing.

I'm not anti trans and always totally baffled by people who are interested in the contents of other peoples pants.

I actually think most people in the UK have a balanced view about Trans people in the line of

• Trans people should be able to openly present as they wish and live their life free of discrimination, abuse and so on

At the same time of the above acceptance and respect, it is possible to hold the view that:

• people should be able to state that you cannot change your biological sex
• women have good reason to want to maintain women-only spaces for their safety and comfort, that includes sports
• children and teens should not be able to transition and harm their body and that the decision to transition should be made by adults only who have the emotional maturity to choose that path.

I think the issues start when both sides of the debate are trying to push extreme views and for censorship rather than focus on good old common sense.

Can you stop calling me 'cis' please. I find it hurtful and it's not something I agreed to. I'm just 'woman'. If you must add a pre-fix to it can you at least make it something I have agreed to? 'real- woman' would work?

Are you kidding me? I’ve had the most robust debates with the most left wing of people on this forum. That is why I like it. I like debating people with different view points. Many many threads have completely opposing viewpoints. Sometimes it makes me dig my heals in and sometimes it gives me pause for thought.

I find it interesting though on this thread, no matter what political persuasion people have, the majority of people are aligned more or less which tells me that this is reasonably representative of the populous.

The problem is the overreach. Very few people would care if trans people just did whatever they wanted to do without insisting that everyone else validate their own opinion of themselves, and attacking anyone who disagreed as hateful transphobic bigots.

I'm happy for transmen and transwomen to call themselves transmen and transwomen, but not happy for them to call themselves "men" and "women". Because they aren’t. Other mammals have words that show whether the adult is a biological male or a biological female, so why can’t we? Whatever cosmetic surgery a bull had, whatever hormones it took, it wouldn't magically become a cow.

I have gay and lesbian friends and family who are appalled at the way Stonewall has succeeded in joining two disparate groups of people as if they have the same interests, when they don’t. Being gay or lesbian is simply about sexual attraction, and it’s ridiculous that a heterosexual biological male can announce that he is really a woman and is therefore a lesbian and entitled to join lesbian groups online and in real life.

It’s appalling that youngsters in the turmoil of the teenage years are encouraged to think that if they feel they don’t fit in with the stereotypes of "boy" or "girl" they might really be the other sex, and should go ahead with actions or medical treatment that will change the course of their whole life irrevocably, when they are too young to understand the full implications.

There's a lot more fuss about transwomen because it’s an objective fact that females are on average weaker and more vulnerable to male attack, and males are on average stronger, more aggressive and more likely to attack others. Statistics show that transwomen retain male patterns of violence, including sexual violence. Look at the huge number of messages threatening murder and rape received by people like JK Rowling. I don’t think many of them will be from transmen.

Women are historically a marginalised and oppressed group, and are now told they have to accept into their group any male who says he is "authentically" (!) a woman and so he must be allowed to take places on programmes and shortlists that have been reserved for women. When the UN has a trans woman as its first "UK Women Champion" the cliche "the world has gone mad" seems appropriate.

To me the whole thing is no different from Rachel Dolezal, the white woman who says she is black because she feels black. Yet she is not applauded and black people are not reviled for disagreeing with her self-identification.

How can a biological girl say she "feels like a boy" or a biological boy say he "feels like a girl" when they have no idea what it feels like to be the opposite sex? All they can be going on is their stereotyped idea of what girls and boys "should" feel like. A boy who likes playing with dolls and wearing dresses may or may not grow up to be gay, but he will still be in a sub-set of the category "man", not a sub-set of the category "woman". The whole trans idea is based on regressive stereotypes.

Well, you did ask!

Stop gaslighting us.

In the UK an average of 2 women lose their lives to male violence per week.

The notion that a group of males are more vulnerable than women is just nonsense.

In the UK they are the MOST protected group.

If you're on Twitter, you must have seen the huge numbers of rape threats, death threats, and threats of violence, from transwomen and their supporters, sent to J.K. Rowling, as well as your average normal woman who wants to protect women's rights?

Do you condemn that vile bullying too? It's much worse than women simply saying they don't believe men are women or that single-sex spaces should remain so, no?

Same. Thankfully.

I hate the way celebrities and public figures are instantly blacklisted and denounced as creeps on here if they dare to say anything that is not one hundred percent condemnatory of trans people.

You hate things that don't happen? Weird

Still no definition of what “anti-trans” is by the multiple posters who are complaining about it or specific examples!

For anyone who wants to read through the statistics for males who have transgender identities who commit sex crimes in the UK here are some.

This was a question answered this month:

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2024-12-16/20298.

Question from Rebecca Paul (MP Reigate): To ask the Secretary of State for Justice, with reference to the HMPPS Offender Equalities Annual Report 2023-2024, published on 28 November 2024, how many of the 50 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as female were convicted of a sexual offence.

Answer from Sir Richard Dakin (MP Scunthorpe): 23 December 2024
Of the 245 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as male (i.e. those who now identify as women, non-binary or gender-fluid) on 31 March 2024, 151 were convicted of a sexual offence. This includes both contact and non-contact sexual offences. Offence data was not available for 1 individual.

Of the 50 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as female on 31 March 2024, the number convicted of a sexual offence is five or fewer. We do not provide exact data for such small sample sizes as it risks identification of individuals. This approach is in line with our standards on data disclosure.

To put this into perspective with what we already knew from FOI information. I posted the information to a regular poster from FWR on another thread, who did not acknowledge the information at all, so it seems sticking the info here is appropriate:

Here is data from the MoJ

Here is an FOI request from 30 April 2024

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/populationoftransgenderoffend/response/2641337/attach/html/7/FOI%20240322022%20Annex%20A.xlsx.html

Up to the 31st March 2023, the MoJ stated that of the 88 male transgender prisoners with one or more sexual offences.

The breakdown was
48 rapes,
0 attempted rapes,
10 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,
13 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity,
0 indecent assault or gross indecency
6 sexual activity with a child under 16
0 other
77 listed here.... BUT there is a total of 88 in the total so there is 11 crimes not noted.

Possessing or making indecent photographs or pseudo photographs of child has not been recorded in this FOI.

However, there is are further discrepancies in the data of the following when you look at TOTAL NUMBER OF TRANSGENDER PRISONERS SENTENCED FOR A PRINCIPAL SEXUAL OFFENCE.

1 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity
3 rapes
2 sexual activity with a child under 16
3 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,
This equals 9 additional... however the sum for TOTAL NUMBER OF TRANSGENDER PRISONERS SENTENCED FOR A PRINCIPAL SEXUAL OFFENCE is 99.

Therefore 2 more sex crimes have been hidden from this data.

There were 203 males who were declared as transgender in the prison at the time.

There were 24 NB who were not segregated into male and female. What is key here, is that THIS IS NON-GRC HOLDERS. And we all know that males holding GRCs have increased and they are excluded from this data. NO female people with transgender identities were sentenced to a principal sexual offence. There were 41 female people with transgender identities in UK prisons at that time.
As a comparison, I have stats that say as of April 2019 that the general male MoJ data for male sex offenders was just 16.8% of the male prison population. And there were 3.3% of female people in UK prisons were sex offenders.
I will leave you to do your own sums. But... even using the figure of 88/203 is 43.3%. (And that doesn't include making or possessing indecent photographs of a child remember.)

By the way this exercise was done in 2021. And I checked this data myself from the data source and it was correct at the time. So, it will give some back ground to the above.

The ones that say that in the March/April 2021 data collection period, the MoJ stated that of the 97 transgender prisoners with one or more sexual offences.

The breakdown was
40 rapes,
8 attempted rapes,
31 possessing or making indecent photographs or pseudo photographs of child,
32 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,
20 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity,
10 indecent assault or gross indecency
9 sexual activity with a child under 16
27 other

The 97 sex offender transgender prisons collected 177 sentences between them.

And that according to that FOI 197 prisoners are transgender.

It's not at all clear to me what that study is measuring. What are 'victimisations'? If they aren't reported to the police, what exactly is being measured?

I'm happy for transmen and transwomen to call themselves transmen and transwomen, but not happy for them to call themselves "men" and "women".

I once would have been, but no more. It's obfuscatory and confusing. "Trans women" are male, and women are female. I don't accept these males as a type of woman, they're a type of man.

What?