To feel everyone is anti trans?

[Kitjo]

I'm well aware of current US views led by Trump - but are these views generally held/supported in the UK? Of course I understand opinions on NHS gender reassignment funding, as well as controversies over trans women in sport. Needless to say I'm fully aware of concerns over women's safety issues. Are there any sympathisers or supporters out there? What about trans masculine folk who are surely no threat to women's safety or sport? None of these people would choose such a hard life, socially, financially, physically, mentally, emotionally... am I alone in thinking a bit of kindness and compassion towards the trans community might be appreciated for the massive personal struggles they have to face? I am open minded to hearing and understanding your views.

I will just add that I do not believe it's possible to change one's sex and I do not believe that gender identity should be prioritised over biological sex. I don't care what people choose to wear or how they choose to present, but I don't believe that should entitle them to be considered to be a woman or a man when they are not. Do I think it's weird to see men in women's clothing? Yes. But much like seeing women in trousers and short hair 100 years ago, I am sure we will all eventually get over the outrage and just take it in our stride. What I don't believe is that wanting to wear clothes/hair/make up that is conventionally associated with the opposite sex or gender to yours, in itself makes you that sex or gender. Neither does it entitle you to be considered or referred to as that sex or gender by everyone around you.

The whole issue of misgendering people is an absolute minefield with far too many trip wires. People almost always immediately know a trans person when they are looking at one. And that will never change. I will call you Missy when you were called Malcom at birth if you like. but if you still really look like a Malcolm in a dress, then I'll probably cringe a bit each time I say it, but I'll do it if it makes you happy. What I will never, ever do is believe or accept that you are a woman. If you were a very effeminate gay man before you became Missy then I'll find it much easier to buy into the whole thing.

But if you are still in possession of a penis and declare that you are 'a lesbian' and complain loudly on Instagram that actual lesbians don't want to fuck you because they are transphobic, then you will always be Malcolm the cross-dressing fetishist to me, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Anti-trans or pro-reality?

I'm sure I'm not the first to have said this.

Absolutely fucking bored of it.

What is a "trans masculine folk"?

I absolutely agree with you btw - anyone suffering from mental illness to the point of wanting to mutilate their body, needs help, professional support and sympathy.

No to all of that. Don’t assume.

Keeping women’s wards for women is something I have fought for. A recent experience of a trans woman being admitted to a women’s MH ward, cemented this view. It was terrible for the vulnerable women there, and only ended when the aggressive trans woman asked to be moved to a male ward. Their wish was granted, as had been their initial wish to be admitted to a female ward.

I fully appreciate the challenges trans people must go through, as you say OP, it's not an easy choice. I fully support their choice to identify however they wish.

However, what I do not support is the 'trans movement' stating how I should identify. I am not a 'CIS women', I am a women, please do not label me as anything else.

I also do not welcome biological men being admitted onto women's wards, women toilets, women's sports. People forget that up until about 100 years ago women didn't have many rights, and the women who came before us fought hard to gain the rights we have now, and this should not be lost in the name of political correctness.

The women's wards is an easy one, provide a trans person with a seperate room, in this way women's only spaces can remain as such, and the trans patient does not have to share with a gender they do not identify with.

Ultimately respect goes both ways, and anyone will fight back if they feel their needs are not being respected. So the anger isn't directed at a specific teans person, but at what is felt to be a lack of respect for women only spaces.

And I think most people agree with that. Most of us just don't think males (however they identify) should be allowed into single-sex female spaces. Transmen are, of course, welcome.

There's no such thing as 'trans', and I don't personally ever feel I should be 'for' or 'against' something that doesn't exist (I'm not 'for' or 'against' Batman or Bilbo Baggins for the same reason. They're just fictional.)

There is a mental illness called gender dysphoria, which needs psychiatric treatment and psychotherapy to overcome. Amputating body parts and stunting children's brain growth is a very bad way of treating mental illness and I am horrified that it took so long for Governments in the UK and US to admit this and put a stop to them. We should have already known that from the era of lobotomy.

I also do not think that people with the mental illness of gender dysphoria should ever have been allowed to change laws in order to make those laws fuel their delusion. Any more than I would support anorexics changing the law to place full length mirrors and weighing scales on every corner of every street in the UK.

Any psychiatrist will tell you that it is dangerous to directly fuel mental delusions, so I'm glad that the Overton Window has shifted and we no longer feel we have to comply with the mental delusion commonly known as 'trans'.

The response to the Cass Review shows just how disinterested transactivists are in the health of children confused and indoctrinated by this ideology. They simple shouted things about it that were clearly untrue to anyone who had even glanced at it, and got pet politicians to repeat these untruths in Parliament.

Sorry just want to say I meant gender dysphoria upthread when I said dysmorphia.

@FruitPolos For example. I don't care if a trans women uses the women's toilets. I don't get the hyperbole over this. I've heard all the arguments and I think they're ridiculous. You don't actually pee in front of anyone.

It isn’t the act of peeing though is it?

women are innately wary of people who can overpower and hurt them. All species have it hard wired into them. I see it with my cats when a larger animal approaches that they assess the threat.

all humans (both male and females) and constantly assessing threats whether they realise it it or not. Most men though don’t worry about women as it is practically impossible for a women to hurt a man with their bare hands. But practically all men can overpower a woman. My son when he was 11 could easily have over powered me even then.

toilets are safe spaces which usually only have one entry/exit point. It is a place where we partially strip off and do intimate care. It is a place where we are very vulnerable. We have absolutely no idea of the intentions of an obvious male (who may or may not be dressed as a women). Might they be just peeing - sure but we naturally get uncomfortable as we just don’t know! I know I’d rather run out of that situation rather than ‘be kind’ and get hurt. it is why if I am walking alone in the dark and see a man behind me I run. I don’t stop to think if they are nice or not.

Our right to feel comfortable should be the overriding feature of the debate and not the other way around.

I don't care if a trans women uses the women's toilets. I don't get the hyperbole over this. I've heard all the arguments and I think they're ridiculous. You don't actually pee in front of anyone

Women’s spaces are not yours to give away to men you choose.

For example. I don't care if a trans women uses the women's toilets. I don't get the hyperbole over this. I've heard all the arguments and I think they're ridiculous. You don't actually pee in front of anyone.

You think it's ridiculous that a woman who may have been a victim sexual assault, a woman for religious reasons, or someone like me just wants to piss in a toilet where I would expect no men to be in the vicinity, might want to be in such a space without the presence of a man in a cubicle next to her, when she's in a state of semi-undress, locked door or not? Because you're not actually peeing in front them? And because you're ok with it everyone else should be?

Right. I’d maybe listen to those arguments again.

What 'anti-trans' rhetoric, @Mielbee ? Thinking rape survivors like me and other women and girls deserve our hard won safe single sex spaces, and fair sport is NOT 'anti-trans', unless of course, you are admitting that to be pro-trans is anti-women. Poll after poll after poll including YouGov show the overwhelming majority of people support the retention of sex-based female single sex spaces and fairness for female only sport.

The OVERWHELMING MAJORITY. Your misogynistic hateful anti-women rhetoric is in the minority, an ever-decreasing minority as even polling over the last 3 years shows a rapid change from pro-'trans' to anti. The more people learn about trans over-reach and the removal of women and girls HARD WON sex-based rights, the more and more people turn on trans. Trans are losing the war. And they need to look at themselves for that answer.

To clarify, by saying "fuck being kind" I meant as in general, nothing to refer to trans people about.
A PP suggested "be kind" is used to put women in place, and that made me see 🍒 red.
Not cherries. 😆

I’m not anti trans, but I’m certainly pro the fact of biological sex. So I am very much anti ‘woman’ being prefixed with ‘cis’, plus of course biological males competing in female sports, etc.

Not to mention the huge increase in hidden cameras and voyeurism. Making it easier for males to have access is not going to help with this issue one bit.

I'm certainly not, there will always be men (or women) who take advantage of others and who are a danger to others, being trans doesn't make anyone more of a threat.

Except that, of course all major medical organisations, the WHO, the NHS etc state that being transgender is not a mental illness.

I've heard all the arguments and I think they're ridiculous.

I doubt that’s true. But anyone who has heard all the reasons for keeping toilets single sex and still thinks it’s ridiculous must be an absolutely vile individual. I’m sure you’re not though.

@Watermelon500 I have no problem with people being trans, but I do have issue with the way gov has tried to give them equal rights due to how it impacts on biological women (all the reasons you state above).
I assume you made an error there. "Trans" people, like everyone else, have equal rights, to me that is the hallmark of a civilised society. The problem is when their rights are prioritised or expanded above other people and they are given precedence

No, but men are more of a threat to women, and transwomen are men. They offend at the same (or higher according to some stats) rates as other men, so why should they be given access to female spaces when regular men aren't?

Yes I'm a woman and mother too and feel the need to protect my child from narrow minded people. People's reactions on here worry me far more than a minority who for the most part keep to themselves! I work with a few trans people and have honestly found them extremely lovely and kind people and have not felt any agenda 'pushed' on the rest of us.

They do, but on no EVIDENCE whatsoever. It’s purely a philosophical/ideological stance.

Do I think people should be able to live their lives in peace, yes.

Do I think that we should ignore that gender dysphoria is a mental illness and collectively pretend patent untruths are true? No.

Transwomen are transwomen, transmen are transmen. Saying this does not invalidate their existence, nor mean I have no respect for them as people. I do. However I will not accept that sex can be changed to save feelings. Live your life as you wish, go by the name and pronouns that make you happy, but do not argue you have “become” the opposite sex, because you have not.